Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (00:00)

If you think that you're going to treat me like that in a workplace, when I'm the talent and you're just the help, then you have another thing coming. I'm responsible for me. I'm responsible for protecting me, protecting my peace, protecting my physical. I don't talk to people who don't know how to talk to people. That's the part that I had to really work on for me was the level of calmness and just the absoluteness. And this is my position.

This is my boundary. That's it. If we don't have to work together and I already know that you're problematic, I'm going to avoid you like the plague. She told one of other girls that I can't stand that. This is the white girl. I can't stand that B. I want to punch her in her face.

Erin Braxton (00:55)

Hey everyone, welcome to the Coffee No Cream podcast. My name is Erin Braxton and I am the host of Coffee No Cream. Here on Coffee No Cream, we are unapologetically dedicated to black women and we share what I like to call Coffee No Cream moments, those things that happen to us black women in business and in life just because we are black. Now, today we have Dr. Kwanza, whom I spoke to. She reached out to me, wanted to share her story and it was definitely a good one.

Have you ever been confronted with the possibility of a physical altercation at your job? That's what happened to Dr. Kwanza and she's gonna share that story with us. She's also going to give us some really good tips on what we can do to prepare for the types of conflict and interactions that we have in these workspaces as black women.

⁓ I love a tip. I love those sorts of tools and she definitely has some so stay around for that before we get into that guys I want to ask that you guys please like please share please subscribe to the podcast We are very very excited about the growth and all of the feedback that we've been getting so, you know we want to create or I want to create a community where black women have a space to ⁓

share their experiences. It's very important not only to help ourselves get past some of the trauma that we've been dealing with in the workspace, but also help those who are coming after us, the younger women who will be in these spaces and need to learn how to navigate them. So please, please, please share, like, subscribe, all the things. We also have a Facebook community where we continue the conversation and it is a safe place. We do check.

and make sure that you are who you say you are. And if that interests you at all, please come over and join the conversation. The link is below. Also, ⁓ we have a free educational resource tool where we have compiled over a thousand free resources, free courses that you can take that will help you level up if you want to learn something new, get into something new, free.

and this is free for you. All you have to do is give us your email and you will get access to that tool. Just go to coffee no cream.com forward slash free. I think that's everything. So without further ado, we are going to get into the episode. So welcome Dr. Kwanza. How are you today?

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (03:42)

I am absolutely wonderful, Erin. Thank you so much for having me.

Erin Braxton (03:46)

Thank you for being here. tell everyone what it is you do. I got that ⁓ doctor in front of your name. So tell everybody what it is you do.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (03:56)

So I go by Dr. Kwanza-Vileka. I actually have my PhD in humanities, which is so important in these days. So very timely. ⁓ But I am a business consultant by day, program manager. ⁓ have a, my resume is very expansive, but I always say that I am a writer, I'm a speaker. I'm the director of a nonprofit organization, Girlfriend Therapy, which is a faith-based organization.

⁓ But my day-to-day job, I work as a program manager in support of our great federal government.

Erin Braxton (04:33)

⁓ okay. Wow, that's probably a whole nother conversation.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (04:39)

It is, I'll preface it by saying I'm a contractor program manager, so I'm not a government employee.

Erin Braxton (04:45)

Got it, got it. Contracting is, we like contractors, yes. Yes. Okay. All right. So for those of you who are joining us for the first time here on Coffee No Cream, we share what I like to call Coffee No Cream moments, those moments that happened to us black women in business and in life just because we are black. And Dr. Kwanza is going to share with us just one of her Coffee No Cream moments. I'm sure she's had many as we all have. So I'm just going to turn it over to her, Dr. Kwanza. What?

is one of your coffee milk cream moments.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (05:19)

So it's funny, Erin, when I was preparing to come on here, I was actually talking to a friend and I'm prior military as well. And so she asked me, said, I'm sure you have something to share from the military. I was like, actually, no, the military was really good for me as a black woman. But I think it was more the woman part where I ran into issues in the military. But this coffee, no cream moment happened in the space of the same space that I'm supporting now, but I was there as a government worker at the time.

Erin Braxton (05:38)

Yeah.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (05:48)

And I was working on a special project and I do air quotes because you guys will hear why it turned out it was still special, but I didn't feel special in it. I'll say that. But nonetheless, the work that we were doing was pretty sensitive work. And there was a small team of us. We were specialized, pulled together for a particular effort. And it was a long term, it's a long term effort. And it was so sensitive that we didn't use our names. So we had like pseudonyms that we would go by. So for example, I would be K.

And so we would do interviews and a part of those interviews, like we had our own case files and they had brought in this older woman, white woman, who was, she had retired, but they brought her in to kind of help with some of the administrative support. ⁓ And so she would come in and she would try, she came in and a part of her role was to help schedule our interviews. But the premise was you had to schedule it under our pseudonym.

You couldn't give them our real name. You couldn't give them any of our contact information or any of that. That was really, really important. And so when she first came in, there was a team of about five of us, three white males, myself, and then a white woman. And she's, she kind of plays a part in this as well. And then this older woman who had retired had come back to support us again, administratively. And so she, you know, shortly as she, after she got there, she was trying to schedule our appointments or our interviews.

And one of the first interviews that she scheduled for me, she literally put my full name and my personal cell phone out there. So I'm at home one evening and I get a call and it's someone calling me by name on my personal call. And I was like, what the heck? So the next day I got to work and I shared that with my boss, who was our team lead. And I was like, I don't want her scheduling my interviews anymore. Now, prior to her coming, we were already, we were like doing it ourselves, scheduling our own interviews.

And I think they just brought her back to try to help her get more income or whatever the case was. But I let my boss know that I didn't want her scheduling my interviews and here's why. So he was like, fair enough, that's fine. I guess she took offense to that. And so after that, she would not speak to me. She would bring in her dirty cookies with the rest of the team and would hand them out to everybody, wouldn't give me more dirty cookies.

Erin Braxton (08:13)

Dirty cookies.

We know how we are about eating everybody's food.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (08:20)

⁓

She was not going to any favors. ⁓ And so, you know, she would, you know, speak to everybody. She wouldn't speak to me, which was fine because I didn't like I didn't need her. She wasn't a part of my day to day or what I needed to do to be successful. And so one day we were in a meeting and I was talking. Now she's just and I hate to say she was there as the help, but you were administrative support. We were a support staff.

We were the team as far as I'm concerned, when we're in a meeting, you don't have anything to add to this meeting, let alone when I'm talking. So I was talking and I'm kind of giving updates on my caseloads and things like that. And she, for whatever reason, started interjecting. And I just kind of put my hand up. I don't know if you guys have, just kind of put my hand up like that. And she like, but I kept talking. I didn't look at her. just put my hand up like this and kept talking to my boss.

And she's, you're not going to give me the hand. And she just like goes off and I just keep talking. And my boss, meanwhile, he's like, okay, okay. You're like trying to calm her down. I just keep talking. We get through the meeting. That was pretty much it. So about a couple of weeks later, my boss was on vacation and I'm trying to make the story as condensed as possible, but my boss was on vacation. Okay. So my boss is on vacation and we had got another young lady on the team.

And she was more senior than the rest of us. And so she was kind of the boss in his absence. Yes. She was a part of the LGBT community. So I don't know if that matters, but she was, she was very masculine, but she was really cool. Like, you know, I'm not saying that for shade, but kind of give her her demeanor. So, you know, my boss is on vacation. You know, we're working our caseloads like we always do.

Erin Braxton (09:51)

So she's got- woman? Okay.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (10:13)

The other girl on the team, the other white girl I mentioned, she was like a typical.

She was just typical. Like she didn't know how to do anything. She was really pretty. Like she wasn't really pretty. She was cute. But I see she was younger and it was always like, my God, I don't know. ⁓ I can't. Can someone help me? And the guys would like fall over themselves to help her with whatever, like anything she complained about. They were, you know, at her beck and call. So she happened to have been working on a case

Erin Braxton (10:24)

What?

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (10:51)

And a part of what we do, we do the investigations, then we send it to another team for adjudications. And so they would basically take our investigation, our reports and all that. So we would do their interview, write a report, know, do any other investigations around it. And then we would write the report and send it to adjudications where they would make a decision. And so.

She was at the point where her caseload was always backed up. Like she was always behind on her caseload. So one of the young ladies who happened to be black that worked in our adjudications team, she, I guess, reached out to her to say, hey, we're waiting on this case. You haven't sent it yet. Now I'm minding my own business over here doing my own thing. And I hear her sharing like, my God, she's reaching out to me asking about my case. When am I going to be done? Everything was just like this drama.

Erin Braxton (11:41)

Right.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (11:42)

So meanwhile, I'm talking to another friend who happened to live, work in adjudications at the same time. We were kind of chatting during our internal chat system. And so it was a show that had just come on. So we was like, Oh, meet me in the, at the vending machines. Cause we want to talk about the show. So I was like, all right, I'm on my way. I'll meet you over there. So we, I kind of gather my change and I tell the other young lady, I'm like, just set the expectation. Like let her know when she can expect the report.

So I say my piece and I grab my chair.

Erin Braxton (12:14)

You say that to the younger white girl.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (12:17)

Exactly. Because the whole time that I'm chatting with my friend, she's complaining in the background about how this other lady is asking for her report. So I'm like, well, just tell her a date so you can set the expectation. Like, it's not a big deal. I didn't say the not a big deal part, but I was just kind of like a matter of fact, like, well, just give her a date so that way she can know you can set the expectation. Grab my change, go out to the vending machine to meet my friend, mostly to chat about this new show. And so we get to the little

It was like a little nook where the vending machine is. And we're in there, chatting. The guy was in there updating, putting more snacks in the vending machine. So we ended up not getting anything, but we still kind of chatted a bit. So now when I come out of the vending area, I go to the right towards my office, my friend, she goes to the left towards her office. And as I'm coming out, the older white woman that's there, the administrative support, she's walking down the hallway. So I pass her and now she's behind my other friend.

that works in adjudication. she goes into her office into the adjudications office. And I don't know where the administrative lady goes. I go back to my desk and I'm minding my business. So a few minutes later, the white lady administrator, she comes in and she tells the other girl like, you don't have to reach out to the woman in adjudications because Kwanza was already talking to her. And I'm like, excuse you. Like, no, I wasn't. I was like, contrary to popular belief, we all don't look alike.

And so I just, you know, kept kind of doing my work, but I was irritated that and she was like, yes, you did. seen you. And I was like, no, you didn't. And I just kind of left it at that. And so a few minutes passed and I'm still kind of irritated. So then I go back to the vending machine because I really wanted to get my snack. Yeah. So I go back out to the vending machine and get my snack. And as I'm coming back in now, we, the way our office was set up, they were like cubicles. So the first cubicle was like where our, our boss would sit along with

the new girl that was there, that was the acting boss. And then administrative girl was sitting, they all sat in that first cubicle. Then I think three of the guys sat in the second cubicle. And then the third cubicle was me, the girl, the other white girl and another guy. And so I'm coming back in the office and I got to pass everybody's cubicle to get to mine. Mine is the third one down the hallway. And so I come in and I kind of stop at the first cubicle because I'm still kind of like, like what is she talking about? You know, I was really irritated.

So I stopped at the first cubicle and I'm, stopped in a way where my right, like I'm still walking down the hallway, but I kind of turn my upper body. So my lower body is still kind of facing the direction I'm walking. If that makes sense. And so I look at the lady, say, um, can I talk to you for a second? And she was like, no, I was like, okay, that's fine. said, but stop putting my name. I didn't say like, don't put my name in your mouth, but I was like, don't talk. Don't don't talk about me. Like,

Don't talk about me if there's something that you don't know. And I just kind of turned around. And before I could turn my upper body, she was here, right in my face. Now at the time, I wore my hair straight. It was relaxed, and I had a short bob. And she was like, you don't tell me what I can say. You don't tell me. I seen you talking to her. And I was like, no, you didn't. But now I'm facing, and I'm walking towards my office. Now this woman.

Remind you, she had retired and they brought her back. So she was well into her sixties. ⁓ And so now she's like in my face and I'm like walking, like trying to get back to my desk and she's like, you know, just rah rah rah. And I can like, she's so close to me. I can feel like her spittle on my neck and my hair is like going like this. And the other lady, she grabs her because mind you, I'm walking away.

Erin Braxton (15:44)

Okay.

Mm-mm.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (16:08)

So the other lady, one that's the acting boss, she grabs her like she's literally holding her and she's, this old lady is walking so fast trying to get to me that she is like almost.

Erin Braxton (16:20)

physically on

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (16:24)

And she says what are you gonna do go to EEO like y'all always do? And I'm just like, okay So in this moment about it now I'm walking past everybody else's cubicle and I'm thinking surely somebody is like as you know, like what the heck But I'm walking past these cubicles Erin and everybody's just like this Nobody is looking up So I get to my cubicle and by the time I get to my cubicle. She is like like reaching for me

And this woman's like grabs her with both hands at this point and she snatches and she's holding her back like this. And she is foaming at the mouth, yelling all kind of, know, I seen you talking to her. You don't talk like she was just angry. And I'm standing here like, okay, I knew in that moment, I was like, if I respond the way that I want to respond, which is at a minimum mush her in her face. I know that was like, they are going to drag me out of here.

Erin Braxton (17:20)

Right? If you responded like she responded, would've drugged

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (17:25)

Exactly.

And so I was so angry. And finally, the you know, the other lady, she drags her off and takes her back to their cubicle wherever they are. Nobody else, of my other team members say anything. That's why I said it wasn't really special, didn't feel special, because we should have been like, I come from a military background. And so when we talk about team, like team is important to me. And the fact that everybody like dropped their heads, bury their heads, act like they didn't see or hear anything was crazy to me.

And so I, you know, I gather myself and I'm just like, what the heck? Like I'm fuming. Like I can feel like my whole body is shaking. So I ended up going to my car and I called my husband and by the time he got on the phone, I was just like bawling. I was crying angry tears. Like I've never been that mad before in my life. But I was like just so angry. And, know, he kind of talked me off the ledge and because of the work that we were doing, we had like mentors.

Erin Braxton (18:07)

Exactly. So mad. Yes, yes.

Yeah.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (18:21)

So we had our boss, then we had like two mentors, and then we had like our chief and our, our deputy chief and our chief. So there was a lot of leadership above us. ⁓ And again, I mean, the work was presented as if it was like a special assignment and we were special to be selected and all this stuff. And so my husband is like, well, you need to go talk to, you know, talk to somebody like to get, you know, to present this, like what happened.

And I'm like, okay, so I'm like trying to calm myself down. So all our leadership was in a different buildings. I walk over to their building and I go to the front office and there, you know, the secretary, she was there and she could see that I was kind of shaken. And I'm asking for like the two mentors first. So I'll just say Jim and Bob. And I was like, is Jim here? You know, she's just like, no, Jim is out today. And I was like,

And I'm just like trying to hold it together. Like I can only get out the words that I need to get out because that lump in my throat was just like suffocating. So then I kind of take a deep breath. I'm like, is Bob here? And she's like, no, Bob is not here either. Now at this point, she can kind of see like, okay, what's going on? And then I asked for the deputy chief and she's like, he's not here, but I can see I'll call him Mac, who was the chief.

And he was racist. There was no question he was racist. Like I didn't even talk to him. He didn't talk to me and it was fine. But he was the only one that I've seen. And so I'm asking for all the other people that I know that I have a relationship with that I can talk to all of them white men, by the way. And and so when she says that Jim, which is the deputy chief, he's not there at this point. I'm just kind of like, I can't even hold it together anymore. So she comes from around her desk. She grabs me up. She's like, but Mac is here. So she takes me to like his office.

Before I know it, she takes me to his office. sitting down in front of him and I am bawling and he's just

Erin Braxton (20:15)

That's

the racist one. Yes. Okay, gotcha.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (20:18)

Yeah,

but he is like the big boss. He's in charge of everything, like the whole organization. And I'm sitting here and I'm just like in tears and I'm trying to get myself together. I'm mad that I'm crying at work. I'm mad that I have to be in the unit or everything. I'm just angry and I'm trying to get myself together. And he's sitting here like unbothered, like, like what? Yeah. And I'm just like, so I'm trying to explain to him what happened. I'm talking over tears and he says,

Erin Braxton (20:24)

Great.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (20:48)

Well, I think you've spent enough time in this organization and it's probably time for you to move on anyway.

And that was his response. And I'm just like, you know, there again, there goes the special assignment. There goes this, you're special for being a part of this team. and then, you know, I ended up after I talked with him, he, you know, was no help. I ended up going to, ⁓ packing my stuff up and I went home for the day. The next day I reached out to our employee relations and there was a

Erin Braxton (21:15)

Okay.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (21:19)

⁓ a young woman that I worked with, she wasn't young, but she was like the chief of employee relations. And she was a bit of a mentor to me in that space as well. And I reached out to her informally and shared with her everything that happened. And her response was, well, you you have been here for a while, so it could be a good time for you to find something else. And you don't really want to burn any bridges. It was just like, okay. So then I go to EEO. ⁓

Like she said, we always do.

Erin Braxton (21:49)

Yeah, yeah. Hey, it's there for a reason.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (21:53)

Exactly. So I go to EEO again, informally, and I'm explaining to him what happened. And it was a black guy. And he says the same thing. Well, I understand, but you don't want to burn any bridges. And that literally was the only response that I got. Needless to say, you know, I did end up finding a different job, still staying in that same space, but just found another office to work in. But.

One of the things that I learned from that was like, okay, I have to really find a way to fight for myself, to stand up for myself and protect myself in a workspace that doesn't involve putting hands on anybody or cursing anybody out, but like really trying to find a way.

Erin Braxton (22:38)

But who? First of all, the fact that this white woman like physically came at you. Yeah. So obviously nothing happened to her. Nope. Right. Okay. How? So when they when they all told you that, how long did it take you to exit this particular position?

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (22:59)

Um, I probably was there for at least another month, maybe another two months or so. Oh, I actually, I was there for like two months because when I found the job, they said they wanted to hold me for a month so I can finish up my cases.

Erin Braxton (23:11)

And what was your interaction with this white woman in that time, during that time, in that month's time?

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (23:17)

I mean, she still was around, still handing out her dirty cookies and still acting the same way that she had acted before, as if nothing had ever happened.

Erin Braxton (23:26)

Mm-hmm. And okay, so you you mentioned I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (23:29)

I

was gonna say, and even when my boss returned, remember I told you my, team that he was on vacation, even when he returned, he was just, he pulled me aside. He was like, yeah, I heard what happened. I'm sorry that happened. But it was still no, it was no recourse. Like it was nothing done to solve it. It was just like, I'm sorry that happened.

Erin Braxton (23:46)

Yeah, yeah. And I think, and I know this is part of the trauma that we all experience because you can't...

It's like it happened. Everybody knows it happened. I know what's going on and nobody does anything about it. There's nobody who's like your ally in those situations. There's you know, standing up for you, fighting for you. So you're left to deal with the impact it has on you emotionally as opposed to feeling supported and that sort of thing. So, wow, that that's a wow. I mean, I know you give me like a bit of the story before.

Because I was like, you know, OK, yeah, this will be interesting. You give me a, know, for those of you who are listening, when you come on the show, I ask for just a snippet, not the whole thing. Right. I want to be reacting in real time. So I had no idea this is the way it's to go. That's.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (24:49)

And I think I just share with you the part of what are you going to do? Go to EEO like y'all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Erin Braxton (24:56)

Hey, know, an EEOC is there for a reason. I don't know. I don't really know anybody who's gone to EEOC and had success. I'm sure people do. I don't know of those people. Somebody very close to me did. it, I think I guess they did because they knew it was so bad. They ended up just settling. Yeah, yeah. Wasn't. Yeah.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (25:21)

So well.

Erin Braxton (25:26)

Okay, so when stuff like this happens, know, I just wanna, I wanna talk about, ⁓ you know, like the impact of that on you, you know, and how you feel like that impacted you going forward, right? If it did at all, because I talked about just, and this will be last week's episode on things getting in our head and how they can get in our head. And this is one of those situations where,

It wasn't an ongoing thing. wasn't something that had been constantly happening. It was an incident. And then that gets, and then that happens. And then ⁓ you can't make peace with it on the job. So then how does it impact you going forward? How do you make, you know, come to terms with it as you're going forward, working in your next positions, that kind of thing.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (26:22)

Yeah, well say I think for me those honestly the first time that I had ever experienced that in a workplace I had never but it wasn't the last

Erin Braxton (26:31)

He's ever experienced that. What are you talking about?

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (26:34)

But it wasn't the last oddly enough. ⁓ And it was always an older white woman that I've had at least four, well hers would be the fourth one. So at least three encounters ⁓ along with hers, I've had four encounters in total ⁓ in that same workspace work environment. And I had been there for maybe...

six years in the so in six years I had four encounters and I realized okay this is just how y'all move around here like it has nothing to do with me ⁓ and then I you know it's one of those things where I felt like because I didn't need your support I don't know if you felt like she thinks she's better or she thinks she's whatever it's always she thinks she's whatever they fill in the blank ⁓ but I I realized quickly that okay

Erin Braxton (27:07)

Right.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (27:30)

This is just how people are going to, in this environment, how they see me. I'm very self-sufficient, very independent. Like I can, I've never had a job where I've had problems figuring it out. Like I just do what I need to do and keep moving on. I don't like drama. So, ⁓ but it's like, but if you think that you're going to treat me like that in a workplace, when I'm the talent and you're just the help, then you have another thing coming.

And so I learned how to, I started to say how I learned to really kind of know one, have to protect myself because all the apparatus and organizations and all that stuff that was there that should have been helpful really wasn't helpful, but it was a condition of that environment. And everybody was just kind of like the main, the many times that people say don't burn bridges. That was the first time I ever even heard that term. Like don't burn bridges. You don't want to burn any bridges. It's like, what?

⁓ so that was kind of like their main thing. It was like, don't burn bridges. So I realized that I had to figure out a way if I was going to stay in that environment in that capacity, I had to figure out a way to protect myself. Again, that didn't involve put my hands on people, ⁓ but to be, but to say what I needed to say, cause I'm a communicator at heart. So when I feel like I can't communicate, that's a big problem for me. And so I learned how to communicate in a way.

That's been, you know, always been very direct, um, to the point where I think the time after that, something happened, I told the woman who was well into her, you know, sixties at the time, I was like, you ought to be ashamed. Like literally she's going off acting a complete ass. And I was like, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. You are 60 something years old and you are out, you're in here acting like a toddler. And you could, you seen her face. was just like, and the second time it was a similar situation.

And the woman she was going off had nothing to do with me, but she targeted her anger towards me. And she was another older woman. was, I was the person that would be in office and like the younger people would be cursing and you know, just being unprofessional. I'm like, don't talk like you're at work first of all. And then there's, you know, other people around, you know, be mindful of the, you know, the company. So I would always kind of really protect her space. But she one day decided she wanted to act a fool and

And I literally was like, nope, you're come with me. We're going we're going to the front office right now. And she was just like, you don't know you come with me. We're like I called her to the front office and and I'm walking to the front office and I'm calling out from my manager. The manager comes out who's another white woman and I'm just like you need to deal with her like so I started taking that approach is like no longer are you going to just

come into my space with all this venom, like we're gonna, like I'm gonna call you out before you try to, you know, cross any lines with me. And so that's how I approach it. In every conversation, it's, like I said, happened three other times after this first one, but I learned like, okay, no, we're gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take control of this narrative. And if we have to go to the front office, we're going to the front office. I'm not going to the front office, you know.

trying and all this stuff is like no, we're going to bring the leadership involved and hold everybody accountable to do what they're supposed to do in their position. And that's how I approach it now.

Erin Braxton (30:59)

Okay, so, okay, so the time that we heard about that was the first time this had happened to you. And you're saying you had to learn, I can't remember your exact words, but you were just saying you had to learn how to deal with this kind of thing. So in dealing with that, this was one of the ways that you learned how to deal with it. So can you go into that a little bit more? Because my

my goal is to help women, young women in particular, figure out solutions because, you know, sometimes you're not in a situation where you can immediately leave or you have the support to do that. You know, you have to stay until you can go. Right. So what does that look like? So you said when the next woman started talking to you crazy,

You're calling her to the office. Explain more about what that would look like for somebody.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (32:00)

One of the things I always say even for myself and again part of the lesson that I learned was I'm responsible for me. I'm responsible for protecting me, protecting my peace, protecting my physical obviously because people don't know how to act in a workplace. And so it was very important for me to one understand the boundaries that I set, help other people understand the boundaries that I set and I'm not bending on any of the boundaries. ⁓

to the point where if I need to pack up and leave, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna pack up and just leave for the day. Like, all right, I'm shutting down now and I'm going home to decompress or whatever I need to do. But then also holding leadership accountable to say, like this happened on your watch, whether you're here or not, how you feel about anything. Like you have a responsibility and obligation to address this in ⁓ a responsible way. Like you can't just let it go.

Like, you find another job and we don't have to deal with it. Like, no, or pulling me aside, like, I'm sorry that happened to you. Don't be sorry it happened to me. Make sure it doesn't happen to anybody else by removing this unprofessional person out of this space. so my advice to young people is to one, set your boundaries and be firm on your boundaries. Like when you're in a workplace, and I tell my daughter this, it's like when you're in a those are your peers. I don't care what role they play.

You're there because you are professional and you're supposed to be here. And if somebody else don't know how to play professionally, then hold them accountable. First of all, keep them at arm's length away from you and you have every right to protect yourself and say, you don't talk to me. You don't come around me. You, if you need to say anything to me, you send it through email or you send it through this person. ⁓ and if it's somebody that I just cannot work with for whatever reason, I'll find another, I'll find another position. ⁓

But I think those are the three things, setting your boundaries and holding people to your boundaries and don't bend on it, especially if it's coming, if it's between you being disrespected or even harmed, hold on to your boundaries and stand firm on them. Also letting people know that you're not gonna do this to me, you're not gonna talk to me that way. ⁓ And I've always been very vocal. Like I said, my voice has always been my weapon of choice. So I've always been very vocal.

⁓ but you want to be vocal and professional, right? so really, even if you have to have like your guy, teach my daughters, like have your key phrases. If somebody says something that's out of pocket, you don't have your key phrases, write it down before you ever find yourself in that situation so that you can go to it. If someone says, ⁓ you know, something offensive, you know, well, I'm sorry that you feel that way, but that's not a professional response in the workplace. Like there's nothing wrong with saying that.

Erin Braxton (34:28)

Absolutely.

Let's

get into that. I like this because I did an episode on boundaries, but it wasn't in this way because I was talking about, listen, you need to erect some boundaries around yourself. And while you're doing that, you know, to protect yourself, not only from you against the world, but for you protecting yourself from yourself because, you know, sometimes we tend to over give.

We tend to do so much, right? So those boundaries are in place and then you use those boundaries to level up. Like you use those boundaries to work on your own shit, as I've said, you know? ⁓ So let's talk about like, okay, so I like what you said about you need to be prepared with your responses. Like I said, ⁓ cause we were talking about going to happy hours in extracurricular work stuff one time. And you know,

You just don't wanna do it, right? You don't wanna go, right? But I know and you know, and maybe not in your line of work, but when you work sometimes for these corporations, it is an unwritten rule. It is part of your job description that you do have to do some stuff you don't wanna do, but you can put some boundaries around it. But I like what you're talking about with prepared responses. Cause I said in that situation, people want you to go do stuff you don't wanna do it.

Be ready. my God, I would love to, sounds so fun. I've got this thing, right? You know, be ready. my Exactly. Or they start talking to you about who's sleeping with such and such office gossip, whatever, whatever. Be like, what? I didn't know that. And move around, right? Yeah. So let's, wanna talk more about that. you know, cause you've done this, you're obviously, you have experience in this area.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (36:22)

Yeah.

Erin Braxton (36:49)

What are some ways that you have put up boundaries? I love this preparing your responses. That's like so key. That's so key. But let's talk about that, like how you boundary up.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (37:01)

Yeah, so I'll tell you, I come from a PR background as well. So I'm, I'm the master of a canned response. But I think when you're in a moment like that, where especially when someone is doing something and you want to act or respond out of emotion, but you know, if I go there, then this is, it's going to be bad. Right. So in order to like tap out of your emotions, but still get your point across. Right. Because I think a lot of times

Erin Braxton (37:20)

It's on. Yeah.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (37:28)

When people are coming, they want the smoke, And they know that I don't have a problem going there, but I don't always want to go there, especially not at work. Exactly. Exactly. ⁓ And so I have those care responses in those moments. And I literally, when I say that I have lists,

Erin Braxton (37:32)

They want it. Yeah.

matter who you are. You're not

Give us some examples. This is what I like. Okay, yes. This is good.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (38:00)

I wish I would have thought that I would

Erin Braxton (38:03)

I didn't look again. I don't know where the conversation's going to go.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (38:06)

know

where it's gonna go. But so things like, one of the things I always say if someone says something and is disrespectful, like, Oh, I need you to do this. Like, well, first of all, you know, we're going to be professional. So let's take a step back and you ask me again, what is it that you need? And I'll see how I can help you. So I say that, and I a peaceful demeanor. Because again, they want they want the smoke, but I don't give it to them.

Erin Braxton (38:25)

See you guys.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (38:34)

if they say something that is derogatory. I've sat in boardrooms where I'm sitting around the table and someone will say something crass about, something that you just don't say in the workplace. And I'll say, be mindful of the company that's around you. Be mindful of the company that's around you. And I'll say it just like that and they'll look like, okay, thank you. So it's just, and I've done that all,

Erin Braxton (38:58)

Yeah.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (39:02)

Coming out of the military, I've done it when I was in the military. Just really this understanding of having to guard yourself and protect yourself. So whatever phrase feels natural to you. So for example, if someone says, ⁓ like I had this one lady, this one boss at one time where she would like to take my work and present it as her own. And she did it twice. So she was like,

Erin Braxton (39:24)

Mmm.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (39:27)

Kwanza, can you send me the report that you worked on? And I'm like, sure. You know, I send it to her, not thinking anything, and then get to a meeting and she presents and I'm like, what? That's my report. And then it's like, but that was my report. She's like, well, no, I made this change. So she could make one little small change. Now I got one for that one. So now she, then she would say, you know, Kwanza, can you share that report with me? Now I send it to her in a PDF, like the unchangeable PDF. And so then she came back and was like,

Erin Braxton (39:43)

Right, right.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (39:57)

Well, why did you send it to me in a PDF? Why do you need it in any other format? Well, that's my response. Why do you need it in any other form? don't have to get into the fact that you stole my work and try to present it as your own. You tell me why you need it in another format.

Erin Braxton (40:02)

Right, right.

This is all part of what I titled my last video and I was talking about the quiet clap back. This is like the quiet clap back. Like I don't have to tell you I'm about to show that, you know, just quietly.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (40:28)

Exactly. Yeah, and I think it makes them so much angrier because you're just like so peaceful. ⁓ And when I realized that, like, okay, you guys really like you're really just wanting a response, but I'm going to give you a better response than what you think because I'm to be very peaceful. ⁓ I'm trying to think of so many other ones. These are real.

Erin Braxton (40:30)

And then

These are good people. I'm telling you because the podcast has been so helpful to so many already. ⁓ these are things because, you know, I learned stuff. I'm like, now what would you do? Right. Because I don't know how old you are. I feel like we're in the same zone. And I'm just like, it's helpful. Right. ⁓ Protecting yourself, though. That's a form of protection. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. I love.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (40:52)

Like responses.

Erin Braxton (41:19)

I love this. If you can think of some more, please share.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (41:23)

And then it's like really just putting the putting it back on the person because like some another person I worked with and She was like, well just tell me like what can you do? It's like well, what do you need? That's in it. She was so she was new to our organization and you know The team was already there and everybody is like no what we're doing She doesn't know what she's so she doesn't know the organization, but she wants to come in and she wants to change it So her first meeting with me

was and I was kind of like in a deputy type position for her role. So she was like the PM. was kind of like a deputy PM, but as a contractor and she came in and it was clear that she really didn't know. And because she didn't know, like her sense of insecurity was like super high. And I recognize that. So any, knew that anything that I say is it was like, so here's a

Here's the guy to do this. I knew that anything that I offered her would be taken like I'm trying to show her up or something. And so one of our first meetings, she says, so do you take notes for me? And I was like, no, we take our own notes. And she's like, well, what do you do? I said, well, first of all, it might be helpful if you understood the organization. said, so.

Erin Braxton (42:27)

Right, right, right.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (42:46)

I would just encourage you to learn the organization and then figure out what you need and then figure out how I can help you. So I'm going to say, right.

Erin Braxton (42:57)

Okay, okay, right cuz when you said deputy I was like wouldn't that put you I don't know if that puts you over I don't know

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (43:03)

Yeah,

it would it would if I was so because I'm a contractor if I was a government person like she's a government person then it would probably made us look more more close or closer relationship rather but because I've worked in a like a billing status and there was like so much turnover so now the requirement had changed right so it was like so you have to decide what's important to you like I'm here to support you but if you're

Requirements changed and you have to set. Okay. These are my priorities, but you can't set priorities for something that you don't know And so that for me is a lot of times it's like I'm not gonna play into your hands of being disrespectful or even coming off with an attitude But I'll put it back on you For you, know, let's see how we can solve it together ⁓ But I'm not gonna solve it for you. That makes sense

Erin Braxton (44:01)

How do you defuse the older white woman who is clearly triggered by your presence, by your accomplishments, by you? Especially, well, you know, this is a... I don't want to get political, but this is...

Yeah, this is a problem. know, these women are put ⁓ in these situations. ⁓ When Abby, the attorney, was on, she talked about how when she first started working, ⁓ one of the, ⁓ her assistant, this woman, wasn't, ⁓ guess, transcribing her ⁓ depositions or whatever and just throwing them behind her desk, not doing them, you know.

purposely trying to set her up. I have another friend and that woman ended up getting fired and they were in Georgia. She said, won't never work for that little black girl, right? ⁓ I have a friend who's an attorney and she got out of college and she just had passed the bar. It wasn't, but I don't know if this was a black woman that did this to her. That's a whole nother conversation that we need to get into as well. And ⁓ the woman, ⁓

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (45:09)

Wow.

Erin Braxton (45:28)

Somebody was stealing from her office. They kept stealing things from her office or one of her assistants wasn't reporting her time and the attorneys didn't even have the software to report the time. So she wouldn't report the time. it was like, know, attorneys, accountants, advertising where I came from, this is a service based industry. It's billable. That's where, that's where you make money. So, you know, setting you up, sabotaging you, things like that are very common.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (45:48)

Exactly.

Erin Braxton (45:58)

when you're dealing with these older white women, a lot of times who did not realize some potential in their life or they didn't.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (46:07)

That's

we do.

Erin Braxton (46:09)

anything that came close to what you do and then you come in and you are in more of a senior role than them, it can create problems. So how do you diffuse situations such as this where you're, you know, you're dealing with this, this personality.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (46:28)

⁓ I'll say a couple of things. think as I was coming up in my career, that's when I would have like my canned responses and but then as I got more into my career, I realized I go into a new role and I say, okay, who am I working with? What is the relationship? What's the necessity of my engagement with them? And I have a practice then I'll let anybody know I don't talk to people who don't know how to talk to people. So that's another one of my canned responses.

Erin Braxton (46:58)

Okay. What does that mean? Tell us. I know how to talk to

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (47:05)

If you don't know how to talk to people, don't talk to me, because I'm not going to be responsive to you. I had this one older white woman and she was never nasty to me, but I seen her being nasty to other people, but she wasn't nasty to me because I didn't deal with her. really do, again, make it a point. If you are not somebody that I have to engage to get my job done, then I'm not going to engage you. I don't do a lot of just small talk and because people just don't know how to act.

The work world has really changed. People are so unprofessional. ⁓ And I just sit back and watch how they treat each other, how they talk to one another. ⁓ So I make a mental note, like, okay, I'm not dealing with them. And if I have to, I literally go in ⁓ with this one particular lady, I had to deal with her on one issue. And I was like, Hey, can you give me the answer to that? And she's like, well, let me get to the background. I don't need the background. I just need the answer. And that literally is my response. And she's just like,

you know, taking a back because other people just appease that and it's like, no, I'm coming in to get what I need. I don't need the background. Just give me the answer and I'm fine. ⁓ or she'll try to share because, you know, try to share more than what I need to know. It's like, I don't need to know that. So I don't have a problem with one kind of shutting people down. ⁓ and this particular lady, she,

When I first started in the organization, she came and introduced herself to me and I had heard that she had just finished her masters. And I was like, congratulations. You she introduced herself to me. was like, congratulations. I just heard you finish your masters. And she was like, thank you so much. This is my second masters. I, you know, I'm working on my third. I was like, wow, congratulations. And she was like, are you educated? And I was like.

Erin Braxton (48:56)

That's weird question.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (48:59)

That's what big like, okay, I kind of hear what you're trying to ask. Not quite sure that's the way to ask it. But then I turned on this air and I said, I said, actually me and my daughter are both PhDs. You know, I said, actually fun fact, me and my daughter are both PhDs. And she's like, oh, oh. So it was like, like, just say thank you. Right. Like just say thank you. You don't have to engage with me like that.

Erin Braxton (49:20)

I'm suffocated.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (49:25)

So that's what I mean when I say, people don't know how to really just be in the workplace. ⁓ But she was someone I just, if I didn't have to talk to her, I don't. ⁓ And I am a fan of packing up and leaving for the day. I am a fan. Yes, I will.

Erin Braxton (49:41)

Okay.

Talk about it, yeah.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (49:48)

I

got another lady, and this was in one job, and she was explaining, so was a task that I was working on, but instead of explaining her part to me, she was explaining it to someone else on a team. And the way she stood, like me and the other person on the team sat right near each other, but she had her back to me as she was explaining it to the other person on the team. Meanwhile, I was the person that was working it. And so I said, I'm sorry, can you repeat that last part that you said?

And she like kind of turned around and know, flipped her head like, like what, what, what? ⁓ I didn't know I need to repeat myself. And I'm like, well, you don't have to repeat yourself. I just was wanting to hear that I'm working on the action and I'm just tracked. wanted to track that what I'm assuming is the same thing that you're assuming and just making sure that we're on task. But I didn't hear that last part. And she's like, well, I already told her, so I don't know that I need to repeat myself. Fair enough. And I just shut my computer down, pack my stuff up and I left for the day.

Erin Braxton (50:48)

Okay, wait a minute. So were you guys in a meeting or she you guys were just like

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (50:53)

I was at we were at our desk and she came on. Like I were my desk and my colleagues desk was like right next to each other. And the colleague was the person that had come in that didn't know anything. That was a whole nother story because she was black, unfortunately. And because she didn't know she was just throwing everything for me to do. Which was fine. I didn't have a problem doing the work. But then when her the other lady came and was trying to give her her part of the feedback she was giving it to.

this other woman that wasn't doing the work. And so we're at our desk and she comes over and although our desk is like side by side, the way she stood was like her back was towards me. So I can kind of hear what she was saying, but not so I was like, lean in here. But I couldn't hear everything. So I asked her to repeat that last part and she just kind of spazzed out a little bit. I was like, okay, I just shut my computer down, pack my stuff up, put it away and say, I'll see y'all tomorrow.

Erin Braxton (51:50)

Right, right, right. do you do you do that? Like you said, I'm I'm have no problem with doing that. Like other instances where you just. OK. ⁓

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (52:04)

It's

unfortunate, Erin. mean, there are so many examples where people just don't either they don't know how to talk to you. ⁓ Just incredibly disrespectful. earlier, like I said earlier in my career, had that woman did that today, I'll probably start here, had that incident where she followed behind me, storming up in my, you know, following, yelling in my ear. I would have stopped in my tracks and I would have turned around and I would have put my hand out.

And if she would have touched my hand, she probably would have gotten mushed a little bit. But I would have been very clear that you are out of line and you are crossing boundaries. And that's probably literally what I would have said to her. And I would be like, you better let her go sit you back down before this becomes a problem. And I would have just been that calm, that firm. And that's the part that I had to really work on for me was the level of calmness and just the absoluteness. And this is my position.

Erin Braxton (52:49)

Right.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (53:02)

This is my boundary. That's it.

Erin Braxton (53:06)

Right?

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (53:07)

And then that would you get you do with what you do with that what you will. And I mean, I am really high up in my career now, ⁓ but I'm still running to a lot of and I even my daughter is young in a workforce and I she just called me literally before we got on this call. She called me and she said that she had been trying to just started a new job and she had been trying to get I guess it's somebody that's like her acting ⁓ acting chief or whatever.

that's not doing their job, that's not been responsive. So they get into this meeting and she says that the chief, and my daughter works virtually, she said the chief like messaged her, like they're in the meeting, give me a briefing, my daughter's prepared to talk to her slide and ⁓ all the leadership is there and her boss, acting boss, whatever, messages her and say, can you talk to slide, whatever.

And I told my daughter, my daughter was like, I'm so upset. Like she just sent it to me like in the middle of the meeting. And she was like, ⁓ she said, so I just replied to her, was like, well, no, I wasn't prepared to talk to that slide. It's not updated. I don't know who was responsible for that. I said, I would have ignored her because my daughter was like, I'm so upset. I felt like I should have done more or I could have reached. was like, no, you know, I said, you know, she said she had been reaching out to her, but she was non-responsive. I said, so.

She can't respond to you in advance of the meeting, but she thinks that you're supposed to respond to her in real time. I said I would have ignored her message. My daughter's like, would you have really? was like, absolutely. 100%. 100%.

Erin Braxton (54:41)

It's like covering for her. It's like, real prepared. I'm here. I don't know what's going on, but yeah, I need you to save my ass in this moment.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (54:49)

Exactly. was like, would have not responded. I'm literally like, that's how I would have responded. ⁓ Without a response, I wouldn't have acknowledged her comment at all.

Erin Braxton (55:02)

I think that the struggle for a lot of people is, you know, the lack of respect, the disrespect, you know, you want to command respect. You want to do it in such a way that you still have a job, you know, until you until you know you have another job, you know, or whatever, you know, and also I've spoken about, you know, you said when those people told you it was time for you to go due to nothing.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (55:17)

Exactly.

Erin Braxton (55:32)

wrong that you had done and then you went out and you found another position. You know, this, it's not like it was when our parents and grandparents, whatever little job they had, they worked a job from the beginning of their career to the end. And then you, you retire and go sit down, right? ⁓ Whereas now you can't go into any of these jobs, even thinking that you're going to be there for the long haul. You have to be ready to pivot and move.

And you have to be agile enough so you can go when you need to go. And you always have to be working on something on the side, always have to be prepared because you might have to go.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (56:13)

And

I'd say my reputation is for me the community that I've been in this in this community for over 25 years at this point When this situation happened, it was probably 20 years ago But it's still the same community a lot of those people have since retired But one a couple of things that I've realized is that one I'm responsible for my reputation So I'm always going to do my very best with regards to my job and my responsibilities

⁓ But what I realized too is a lot of times the people that I have run ins with are people that honestly have nothing to do with my job. Like it could just be somebody that sits in the office space with me or somebody that's an administrative assistant that I really don't need you to administer anything for me. So it's always these tertiary people who have nothing to do with me. And so if I can cut that relationship off, then that's what I do. And after a while you kind of recognize the pro like

The problematic people, carry that same energy. So I could go to a whole new office while they're introducing me to the people in the office. It's like, Ooh, okay. I've seen this personality before and I already put them, you know, put them over here. Like, and if I don't, that, that honestly is one of the things I keep referring back to my daughter because in real time she is a young person, new to the work world and encountering some of these things that I've encountered before.

And the advice that I give to anybody is the exact same advice that I would give to my daughter. And I wouldn't steer her wrong. So I wouldn't steer anybody wrong with my advice. ⁓ I would say recognize who it is that you really have to work with and why. ⁓ I know you did a session where you talked about like friendships in the workplace and things like that. There are people that think organically you find relationship with and you can have conversations with or whatever. But

If we don't have to work together and I already know that you're problematic, I'm going to avoid you like the plague. ⁓ and, that's it. You know, so sometimes we feel like we go into the workplace and we have to, you know, connect with everybody. It's like, no, I'd literally make a list, Erin of, okay, this is where I sit. This is the organization. These are all the key players. Here are the stakeholders. Like, who do I need to talk to and who do I not need to talk to?

Erin Braxton (58:15)

Right. yeah.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (58:34)

and I will write names down on the paper or positions on the paper and I will literally cross them out if there's somebody that I don't have to talk to.

Erin Braxton (58:42)

You're very organized about it though. And I like your strategy, right? Like you have your responses ready, you put your org chart together, you know, for who you need to deal with and who you don't. I mean, these are all important little tips because...

It's relevant. mean, you do have these ⁓ administrative people, these, I don't want to say it's, a lot of times it's white women, but it could be black women, other people, and that become a problem in these work environments. it's very strategic and smart to determine who's important and who's not.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (59:32)

Honestly, I found that that that I have to do that ⁓ because you do see a lot of the same players and I will I will say I come from bonafide assholes and I can be an asshole and I don't like and I don't like to be but I really truly can be and so

Even if my response is and people say, that's passive, it's not passive aggressive. It is very honest and direct. just filter it before it gets to the point where it is so overtly offensive. Right. I'm like, I'll say something to somebody and they have to stop and think like, what does she just check me? It's like, cause I'm you go figure that out. You go figure that out. I really do. I, I.

Erin Braxton (1:00:21)

I love it.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:00:25)

I kid you not. So hey.

Erin Braxton (1:00:27)

We do, we do have our people and know, you know, the tongue. One of the things it's funny you say that cause growing up, my mom was very quick with it. was sharp, you know. And when I was a kid, I was like, how does she get that way? Does she do that? You know, where she just like, right. She could write and just get you told.

And I was always so in awe of it. And it's so funny. I believe I've...

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:01:00)

You don't have to get angry. don't have to change your disposition. You don't have to do any of that. You can just be very clear. I remember I had a woman in the workplace and for whatever reason, again, this was actually the same woman that used to steal my work and she, for whatever reason, just did not like me. And she told one of the other girls, so

Erin Braxton (1:01:05)

Yes!

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:01:30)

She told one of the other girls that I can't stand that. This is the white boy. I can't stand that B. I want to punch her in her face. About me. Right. So another girl, was like, I said you should have told her to do it.

Erin Braxton (1:01:40)

girls have this about you really

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:01:49)

I said, I would have loved to see how that would have went off. But then I did confront her because she was just doing stuff. And I confronted her one morning, got into work super early. She was like one of the first people that would get into work. I got into work extra early that morning, got into work about 6.30 that morning, just me and her in the office. And I went over to her, I said, yeah, so.

You know, I heard that you wanted to punch me in my face. Like we're literally in office at 630 in the morning. And she's like, her face was like beet red. And I was like, that's not professional. said, but I would have, I would have loved to see you try to do that. And I just stood right there and she was just like, she was just like beet red. She couldn't say anything. She couldn't do anything. And I was like, don't you ever talk about me in that way again.

And so this is the asshole part because I will meet you outside. I will meet you in the parking lot or I will meet you at six 30 in the morning in the office where it's just me and you and I double dog dare you.

She was, I mean, she still didn't like me, but she never said anything else to me. That was like, cause here, there's nothing but space and opportunity. Like let's try that and see how that goes. I said, I guarantee you before anybody get in this office, we would have finished where we gonna start. We would have finished it and it will be your work against mine.

Erin Braxton (1:03:11)

Yeah. Yeah.

crazy to be because I have never I mean your your experiences with like physical threats like that's that's crazy to me I've never had that ⁓ I've had a lot of stuff happen it's very interesting to listen to black women tell their stories but you know somebody approaching you physically somebody saying I want to just punch her in her face like that's crazy to me like

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:03:55)

to

punch me in my face because I don't want you to steal my work. Make that make sense.

Erin Braxton (1:04:00)

Wow. Wow. ⁓ wow. Okay. Well.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:04:05)

mean, the days, Erin, I tell you, and all of them are literally in the same space. So where I work at now, now I work as a contractor. So I'm kind of, you know, I can really remove myself a lot more from a lot of the day to day stuff. I can go to my corporate office and work and not have to, you know, be around these people every day. But when I'm around them, I just, you know, really focus on, I get in and I get out.

Erin Braxton (1:04:30)

Yeah, that's the goal. You don't try to get too involved in anything other than work. Right. Yeah. And keep it professional. What are you just curious because you're very strategic about the way you interact. Do you ever do I know you said you had the one friend of that one office where you dealt with the woman who came up on you. ⁓ But how are you with friends in the office? Like ⁓ usually no.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:04:38)

Exactly.

I usually do. yeah, I usually do like not, not a lot of people though. Like I will talk to maybe one or two people. ⁓ I get, there's an office of 50 people. I'm probably talking to one or two of them. but I mean, I like people. I like people who, again, I don't talk to people who don't know how to talk to people, but I love them. I'm real people's person. ⁓ get that from my mother. I can talk to anybody.

⁓ I can talk to anybody about anything honestly. So I love people, but I don't like problematic people. just don't. So I do, I believe that you can find friends and acquaintances at work. ⁓ I don't like there are people I'll talk to at work, but I don't talk to outside of work if that makes sense.

Yeah, I may go grab coffee. It's like, I'm going down to grab coffee and, you know, we'll go get coffee or something like that. ⁓ I have one friend that, you know, I met at an office and I didn't really talk to anybody but her and then she changed jobs. And, ⁓ so when I would go talk to her, of course the people around her would try to get in a conversation. And she said, yeah, when I was leaving, they were like, ⁓ you know, do you think Kwanza is going to come over here and talk to us? And she was like, no, she never came over here to talk to y'all. She came to talk to me.

You guys just got in a conversation.

Erin Braxton (1:06:26)

Just makes them want to talk to you more.

You know, they're just so inquisitive. Like, I find especially not necessarily black people, but white people for sure. Like, they just want to, it's like, I don't know what it is. I don't know why we're so fascinating to them. ⁓ but when you don't talk to them, you're intentionally not talking. It's like, they want to talk to you more.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:06:39)

Yeah, my gosh.

Oh,

And it's like they want your attention. I remember a colleague he said, he was like, yeah, people just want your attention in any way. It doesn't have to be good. It doesn't have to be bad. They just want your attention. And I was like, that is so weird to me.

Erin Braxton (1:07:12)

It's just happened to me so many times. Like, so intrigued. have a neighbor like this. I mean, I talk to this neighbor. ⁓ and I know that neighbor probably tells all the other neighbors that I don't talk to whatever she could get out of me. Yeah. Very, you know, just it's like, what, what's, why am I so interesting? You know, not.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:07:31)

Yeah.

Exactly.

Erin Braxton (1:07:41)

You're trying to put the pieces together. How did you get over here kind of thing?

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:07:47)

Exactly. And it, it's different like in the workplace because you are there to, you know, be a professional and nobody wants to lose their job by, you know, getting out of pocket. And, ⁓ so just really do believe you just have to kind of guard your own space, set your own boundaries. And, know, and people have to respect you, but teach people, but it's a, know, ⁓ you have to teach people how to treat you. Like I really truly believe that you have to teach people how to treat you.

And sometimes you have to continue to give them that same people that same lesson over and over again until they get it. ⁓ so I'm a fan of teaching people how to treat me. And the only way I can do that is to be honest. ⁓ one of the things I always say is, you know, it's nothing better between two people than an understanding. So I am always going to be honest. If you say something that's offensive, I'm going to say that's offensive. ⁓ and I'm just going to always be honest. I really am. So.

Erin Braxton (1:08:43)

this approach. like it. It's a unique one. You know, we haven't heard yet on the podcast. I like this approach. I've enjoyed talking to you. This has been great.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:08:59)

Thank

you. enjoyed it as well. But I'm this is coming from like, I put my PR, my public relations hat on. So it's like, how do you manage people? How do you manage crises? So that's the approach. I think that's where it's generally coming from.

Erin Braxton (1:09:13)

Yeah, and that I think as being a black woman and navigating spaces is definitely it is a little bit of public relations really. You do. I never thought about it that way until you got it, but you do need to manage it.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:09:30)

Crisis management.

Erin Braxton (1:09:33)

Like it or not, I mean, if you're relying on somebody for a paycheck, know, yeah, stuff's gonna happen and it's not gonna necessarily bend our direction in the favor of our direction, right?

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:09:39)

Right.

And another thing, Erin, if I can share, want, I think I want people to recognize, especially young people. think they got it more than maybe our generation that you have options. Like there's so many options. A lot of times we feel like we get into these spaces and this is honestly, this was how I discovered your channel. ⁓ your podcast a few weeks ago, probably about a month or so ago.

I was laying in my bed one Saturday morning and I was so exhausted because the job that I was in was just draining me. I mean, absolutely draining me. Every day I would come home exhausted. And I really felt like with all of my accomplishments, with all of my years of experience, I was like, man, I don't have any options. And it wasn't that I didn't, I just didn't, I didn't feel like I had any options. And I remember, can't remember which episode it was that I first got tuned into a coffee, no cream.

But that thing, when I say broke a spell, I got up with that thing and I binged like four or five episodes that morning. I did not get out of bed. I binged like four or five episodes. And by the time I got off that was like, no, I can do anything. I can do whatever I want. And I mean, it was just like, whatever that heaviness was, just listening to everybody's stories. That's why I was like, have to share. But listening to everybody's stories was such a.

a burden like lifting a burden off of me. And that same week, I kid you not, that same week, I, you know, went to work, I had the incident where the lady turned around, I was like, what, why do I have to repeat? I was like, that's it. I left that day. I left that day and I called my boss and I said, I will not be going back there. I said, I can't, I cannot do it. We have to figure out something immediately. And he was like, I'm glad you called. I got this opportunity.

And just like that change jobs that happened on like a Tuesday. I talked with him that that Tuesday afternoon. I talked with him again that Thursday that Thursday was my last day. I started a new job on that Friday or that Monday. So sometimes you. Yeah.

Erin Braxton (1:11:50)

Yeah.

You do, you do have options. And so glad you said that. ⁓ Sometimes your options are around you and you even realize they're around you. ⁓ I had a situation myself recently where I'm like, okay, know, cause I work for myself and you know, and you see what's coming and you know what's on the books. And I went back to something and I,

I just was like, yeah, we need to revisit this. You said you wanted to do this thing, da da da. And it's, I pitched it yesterday and it, it's not on, but it's pretty much on. It's a six figure opportunity. So yeah. So like, my thing is you have options. Sometimes you just need to tap into what those options are and you don't need to limit yourself on what those options can be. Right. You know, you're so fortunate as to, you know, call.

be able to make a call and be like, listen, I can't be here. And sometimes maybe if you're on a job out there, you're listening, it might be as, as easy as that, you know, maybe there is somewhere else you can move to within your organization to get some immediate relief, you know, cause my whole thing is, ⁓ you know, I talk about, ⁓ don't let these people get in your head, kill your confidence. You need to always be in motion on something. Cause as long as you're in motion, that gives you proof that there is

another option, there is something else that you can do. ⁓ But sometimes the the the answers or the immediate answers are really close by. And that might just just sound kind of vague. Because like, that's the only way you can talk about that kind of stuff. It is sort of just like it's not really definitive for anyone, other than just pay attention, look around and you know, maybe even take an inventory.

of everything you have going on, what you can do, what your skill sets are, your experience, all of those things to try to figure out what your next move is. I think we just kind of tend to sit and stew and think, I don't know what I'm going to do, you know, because we're so beholden to these people and these jobs.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:14:19)

And then get mentors like I'm a huge proponent of a mentor. I have many, you know, reach out to people have virtual coffees, you know, go to conferences, meet people like I am a huge, I tell my anybody to ask every job that I've ever had except for going into the military. I got it through word of mouth or reference every single job.

Erin Braxton (1:14:26)

Yep.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:14:46)

Every single job meeting just seeing somebody on an elevator and you're like, hi, good morning. Like, you know, going into the office every day and seeing the same person on the elevator is like, hey, how are you this morning? And, know, just building that basic rapport, ⁓ you know, could land you an opportunity. ⁓

Erin Braxton (1:15:04)

Yeah, stay in motion. Get out there, network, meet people. Don't just sit at home and watch TV and say you'll figure out tomorrow or bury your head in sand. I mean, you can do that for a day or two. Yeah. But look, you got to get out here. Just constantly be working on something because you just never know. ⁓ That could be your next opportunity. ⁓ I'm the queen of a conference. I love a conference. ⁓ my goodness. I do.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:15:26)

I'm not sure.

Erin Braxton (1:15:33)

I love a conference. love, have been, I've had so many coaches, like business coaches, which can get expensive. But like I say, if you have a coach or you're, especially if you're trying to get somewhere in your life, right. And they can jump you instead of going from A to B, but they can get you from A to F. Right. You pay for it if you can. Right. And get that learning, get that experience. You know, there's so many things out there and,

Ideas will just come to you. I love a conference

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:16:07)

It's

interesting when you talk about the when I talk about mentoring and you talk about the coach, I think that's a generational thing too. And I think the generation of the mentor is kind of rolling out and a lot of people from our generation is more like, oh, I'll give me a, um, a business coach or whatever coach for, know, for a fee. Um, but I think, I think the still traditional mentor is still a good way to go.

Erin Braxton (1:16:29)

Yeah, and but be careful about these coaches because you know, you're in the world of the internet and people are like, I coach, coach. Because they really are. I told you when before we started recording, you know, I always wanted to have a YouTube channel and I had tried to start one a few different times or grow my other channel a few different times. So I hired a coach.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:16:37)

back.

Coach.

Erin Braxton (1:16:59)

for YouTube. I'm not bragging, know, but I hired her because I was like, okay, she's great. Like, okay, she's gonna give me the tools. And immediately, as soon as I got into her course, she tried to throw us to the assistant who had no following, who nobody followed. Like, girl, you're not big enough to do that yet, right? You know, her videos, I...

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:17:24)

Yeah.

Erin Braxton (1:17:28)

I didn't, everybody's got a different path, but I look back at her and think I wasted, I think I paid $1,000 for that course. Yeah, and she's getting like 600 views, maybe. 400, I'm like, and I'm no disrespect to somebody just getting started. That's exciting. I mean, some of my videos only have that. I'm new, like I'm excited if I get anything, but I just feel like I should have looked at that more wisely.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:17:41)

What up?

Erin Braxton (1:17:58)

Because ⁓ if you're out here coaching on it, you need to be way farther ahead than I am. That's all I'm saying. So be careful of who you hire to coach you. Because everybody claims they're a coach and a lot of times they're just collecting money.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:18:16)

Exactly. Yeah. That's probably a whole other discussion. But I always say you'll know them by their fruits. Yes, the scripture you'll know them by their fruits is like, when I see people that I know, and they're like, I'm a life coach. And it's like, but you don't have your life together. Coaching on what? Yeah.

Erin Braxton (1:18:21)

gas

Yeah.

Life. What?

Right, life coach, that's a biggie.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:18:42)

Yeah, but they'll get on social media and I mean they they talk they're talking, you know

Erin Braxton (1:18:49)

And the thing is social media is great. The internet is great that allows us to be here talking right now and there's wonderful amazing parts of it and ⁓ It could really help Help you and I tell women all the time and I know this the internet and Social media kind of levels the playing field for people who want to get into something, you know and get into

doing something, even if they want to do content. I mean, you can do that. It's work, but it levels the playing field. But you've got to be careful of who you're looking to as your leader, right? that's all. Yeah, when you're young, think, and I want to talk about young people. I'm not saying anything bad about young people so people don't come for me. I'm just saying it's not what it...

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:19:29)

Yeah.

Erin Braxton (1:19:43)

appears to be, you know, no, there's nothing happening when the camera isn't rolling. So, yes. Yes. So anyway, Dr. Kwanza, this has been great. I know this has been so good. I might have to bring you back, you know, because I want to start doing panels on certain. Yeah, so we just.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:19:45)

at all.

Enjoy yourself.

I love that.

Erin Braxton (1:20:11)

You know, I have some ideas. did the one with, you know, was three of us. We did friendships. I've got, I've got some other ideas. So yeah, you might be a great panel candidate. That's fun. You know, it's fun having these conversations. So let everybody know where they can find you. If they want to say hello or you have your podcast, you tell people about it.

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:20:36)

Um, so I do I had a podcast called doctor doctor doctor And I do it with my daughter and my cousin all three of us got our phd's around the same time They actually got theirs in 2022. I didn't get mine. So 2023 But I have mine in humanities. My daughter has hers in psychology and my cousin has hers in um, like social work or Like she's a psychiatrist so she can prescribe medication

So we take different topics. Yeah. So we take different topics. We talked about everything from community to friendship, ⁓ self care is an upcoming topic. So we talk about topics from those different perspectives. I usually kind of give the, you know, humanities, like the humanistic take on a topic such as community. My daughter will talk about the psychological importance of community and my cousin will talk about like the mental health component of community. So we, you know,

Doctor, doctor, doctors, we're kind of just getting started, but we're having a lot of fun. I think we had three episodes up so far. First is an introduction episode. I also am the founder of a nonprofit organization, Girlfriend Therapy. And you can visit that website. And it'll take you to all my other things, which is girlfriendtherapy.org is the website. ⁓ I'm on social media, on Facebook, just under Kwanza Gibson. I'm on

Girlfriend Therapy has a Facebook page as well as, oh gosh, IG. I think Girlfriend Therapy is on IG. And then myself, you guys can see my hair is up. My hair has a life of its own. So I do have a Dr. K locked in gray hair page on IG as well. And I think that's really it. And I have a lot of different YouTube channels where it's just doing everything from art to thrifting.

to, Girl with Arby is probably the most established where I do a lot of podcasts and things like, know, what you and I are doing today and talk about a lot of different topics. Used to do conferences before the pandemic, but there's some content there from the conferences as well. So you can definitely follow me or find me on Facebook, IG and TikTok. Go over to their website.

Erin Braxton (1:22:48)

And I'll blow-

And I'll put the links I'll put the links below so everybody can find dr. Kwanza and dr. Dr. Doctor and the locks because they are beautiful. They're beautiful. Thank you. Yes,

Dr.  Kwanza Falaka (1:23:03)

be

sweating like crazy if I had them down because they usually like they cover my ears like forget about it. So I was like, let me pull this up so that I'm not with the fan and all that stuff. So they're pretty good today.

Erin Braxton (1:23:16)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. No, people want those locks. They're beautiful. So, yeah. Thank you. I get it. Yes. All right, guys. Well, thank you guys so much for joining us and we will see you in the next episode.