Tashun Bowden-Lewis (00:00)

He comes to me and says, do you mind sitting on the other side? Not next to me. Why don't you want me to sit here next to you when I am the person who is leading the situation here?

Erin Braxton (00:13)

What was going through your head that made you comply?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (00:18)

It's about evolution, what they try to take away, job loss, know, demotions, stunted growth, whatever may be, titles, all that stuff. Okay, but then you focus on your core strengths, you know, your resilience, your relationship building, being adaptable, strategic thinking, those are the things that have helped me to get to where I am right now and I'm thriving.

Erin Braxton (00:51)

Hey everyone, welcome to the Coffee No Cream podcast. My name is Erin Braxton and I am the host of Coffee No Cream. Here on Coffee No Cream, we are unapologetically dedicated to black women and we share what I like to call Coffee No Cream moments, those things that happen to us black women in business and in life just because we are black women. Now today I have a really, really special treat. I have Deshaun Bowden Lewis and Deshaun is, she's just like.

really good energy, the sweetest, sweetest thing. Formerly a public defender, so she went from law to her own consulting business, but she did it in her own way. We've been talking about finding value and how to find your value, how to extract that out of all of the things that you do, what it is that makes you you. And we have that conversation. Now, she's soft spoken, she's super sweet.

She coaches, she consults, but don't let that sweet voice fool you. She's got a lot of powerful things to say, a lot of really good advice. And I think you're gonna really enjoy it. So stay to the end, watch it all the way through if you can. Before we get into it, I wanna ask you guys to please like, please share, please subscribe. Just hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you'll be notified that ⁓ the video's up when they come up.

Make sure you hype it up if you have that available to you as well. ⁓ Facebook group link is below. We've got free resources, almost 2,000, coffee no cream dot com forward slash free. And that is it. That's all of the housekeeping. So let's get straight into the episode. So welcome to Sean. How are you today?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (02:40)

Good morning, I'm fine. Erin, how are you?

Erin Braxton (02:43)

I'm

good, I'm good. I'm excited to have you here. I can't wait for you to share your coffee no cream moment and your experiences with everyone. So let me just like turn it over to you and let, so you can let the people know what it is that you do.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (03:00)

Thank

Of course. Well, hello, hello again, everyone. My name is Tashun Bowden-Lewis and I'm an attorney by trade. ⁓ And I've been in public defense for almost 30 years. But recently, a years ago, I ⁓ had to pivot. I had to change. And so I now have my own business, ⁓ the Bowden-Lewis Consulting Group. And I do consulting, leadership development, workshop facilitation, executive and personal coaching.

And those are the things that I'm doing now that I really love. ⁓ But you know, I always have, I'm not turning, I'll have that heart with me, but that's what I'm doing now.

Erin Braxton (03:40)

So are you still practicing law or no, that's done.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (03:44)

Well, no, I'm still barred, but no, I'm not practicing. I'm not in a courtroom anymore. People call me, but no, I'm not. I help them with best practices in my consultations. ⁓

Erin Braxton (03:56)

Okay, okay. Well, okay, so let's just not waste any time. I'm gonna turn it over to Tishun and have her give us her coffee no cream moment. Those of you who are joining us for the first time, coffee no cream moments are those things that happen to us black women in business and in life just because we are black women. So Tishun, please share with us one of your coffee no cream moments. We know there's many, but the one that comes to mind

when asked the question.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (04:29)

Yes,

when I was at the highest level pretty much in my sector, in my field, there's always ⁓ board meetings, of that nature. And so in our board meetings, I'm the only black woman in the room and I'm the only one who has that ranking. And so it was in a U-shaped kind of situation with the tables. So I'm in the head of the middle of the U with the person who is

presiding over the meeting at that time, ⁓ white male. ⁓ so the first meeting is fine, it goes smoothly. But the second meeting, he comes to me and says, do you mind sitting on the other side? And.

First I was taking it back and I'm thinking, I said, you know, what did you mean the other side? Not next to me, but on another ⁓ chair on the other side of that U shape. So not in the front anymore, but on the one of the sides.

Erin Braxton (05:32)

If this is the U, wonder if I could draw this on the screen. So he was at the top of the U, right? And he wanted you to be on the side of the U. Yes. OK.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (05:40)

with me originally.

And that took me back. ⁓ And I was, I was shocked. Because again, I'm the person who is ⁓ in leadership. ⁓ so I did, I did. And, but that was something that was very jarring to me. And it, all kinds of things went through my head and through.

my psyche because I'm thinking, you know, why don't you want me to sit here next to you when I am the person who is leading the situation here.

Erin Braxton (06:27)

So leading the meeting and leadership at the organization, because what is his role compared to like your role?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (06:32)

Right. He was actually leading that meeting, but I'm leading the organization. And so as a number, as we're the top two people there, I should be sitting right next to you because questions are going to be fielded and I have to, you know, give reports and save certain things and that kind of thing. And so since I'm in leadership over the organization, I should have been sitting right there next to you.

Erin Braxton (06:59)

So is this at a law firm?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (07:02)

No, was at, so I did, it wasn't a law firm. I was a part of an agency and it was kind of a private situation, private agency, but it was, there were other lawyers who were there. There were other people that were there. But again, ranking wise, it should have been myself and him. ⁓

Because after you have, within any kind of organization, you have a presiding officer who's over some sort of a board or something like that. And then you have the president or CEO who's a person who is leading and executing. And that was my role. And so everyone was aware of who I was and what I was doing. But by that shift, that very, that visual shift and... ⁓

It changes everything because now why is she not sitting up there and why is she not in the forefront since she definitely is leading.

Erin Braxton (08:03)

So you said you were shocked.

Did the, okay, I know it took you back. I know you were like, what is he doing? Yes. And I just want to try to see if I can ask you what was going through your head that made you comply? Yeah.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (08:29)

Well, at the time, it was the beginning of the meeting and I didn't want to have any kind of dispute at that point. were beginning the meeting. You know, people, I'm as the head of anything, everything trickles down from the head. So my example is very important. And of course, all eyes are on me. So if I were to, if I was going to ⁓

Say what was really on my mind at that point. It would have led to a serious argument. Mm-hmm, and it would have been something where Then it wouldn't it was shift from the business to a one-on-one situation of power dynamics and I didn't want that My people are in the room and I need for them to see that I can address issues with poise and I can also ⁓ Move through situations

without having it rattle what I have to do. Because I'm still going to do my reporting, answer my questions, do what I have to do. So it was important for me to lead by example. And after the meeting, of course we had conversations, but during that time it was jarring. And I wanted to make sure though, that as a leader, that they see me being calm under pressure and not having some sort of...

banter that would have been divisive at the time. We had to take care of business.

Erin Braxton (10:02)

How long had you been at the organization when this happened?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (10:07)

year.

But not in that role. Now in that role, it had been one year.

Erin Braxton (10:15)

And how long had this guy been there?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (10:23)

months.

Erin Braxton (10:29)

Hmm. Okay. So what happened after that? Like, what did you do? Like, did you did you confront him? Did you guys have to have the conversation?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (10:38)

So once everything was over and done, ⁓ everybody kind of got up quickly, excluding him. So at that moment in time, we were not able to have the discussion. But we did have discussion later on. ⁓ it was just, know, it just about, ⁓ it was kind of poo-pooing it. ⁓ you know, there wasn't anything, you know, meant to make you feel a certain kind of way.

Erin Braxton (10:49)

Right.

Wait

a minute, no no, what did you say? Oh did I say? Yeah what did you say and then what did he say?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (11:12)

Okay, got it. I said, why did you ask me to move? And he said, ⁓ you know, I just thought that it would just be easier because I had so much stuff I had to do with paperwork and I needed to make sure that I had things together. ⁓ And so I just asked you to move. And I said, but...

I am based on my position, I should have been there next to you and that shows solidarity, shows cooperation and collaboration. well, that's still able to be seen if you're sitting someplace else. And so at that point, then I started taking notes.

about the behavior. was my key right there. Because if he's going to have those kind of responses, that means he's not even trying to hear what I'm trying to say. So started documenting at that point what was going on.

Erin Braxton (12:06)

So is he your subordinate? Technically?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (12:10)

No, he would not be my subordinate, but it would be more so ⁓ in that structure, he would be over me. ⁓ He's over me, and then I'm over everybody else.

Erin Braxton (12:22)

Okay.

So, okay, so you start documenting, you've said something, you've approached him, you just went to his office and said, hey, can we talk? Okay. And you you have the conversation, he's, you know, dismissing it. And ⁓ I want to go back though to...

What, and I'm not saying this in a negative way, because we all do this. I was just talking to somebody about this, and there's been times in our lives where we've, we shrink back, you know what I'm saying? We don't, we already feel sort of like the imposter, and we're in the situation, we've been given the role, we're in the room, and then somebody does something like that to you.

it just kind of, it all comes up. So we don't always respond the way we would have liked. mean, in your situation, you didn't wanna cause a scene in the meeting or anything like that. I mean, you could have just said no, and just stayed there. But what were you feeling? Was that part of it? Because...

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (13:28)

Thank

Erin Braxton (13:46)

You know, I think it's so common and a lot of people were talking about things like that more now, but I know I felt it. I still struggle with it, you know?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (13:57)

For me, I never had imposter syndrome. I always knew I was supposed to be in the room and I still do and I always know my value, my worth. It's about trying to be, for me, trying to keep as much peace as possible, especially in those kind of settings. If it was one-on-one, it would have been different for me. But because there were other people in the room that are counting on me.

My thought process was, let me just handle it in this way and then move forward after the fact. But I ⁓ dismissed. I felt ⁓ like you're trying to make it seem as if I'm not worthy to be right here next to you in this position and in this situation. And so then, of course, my antenna go up.

because now I'm making sure I'm watching what you do and how you, and what you say to me because we have to understand that it's about respect. ⁓ And if it's not given, then I'm gonna command it because I know who I am and what I'm supposed to be doing. There's no ifs, ands, or buts in my mind about me, my credentials.

my characteristics and what I bring when I enter a room.

Erin Braxton (15:27)

Right. So how did it play out? Ultimately?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (15:31)

it ultimately got more ⁓ contentious. did. It never kind of became okay. You know, and ⁓ it just, we never had a good relationship. We just never did. And it's unfortunate because again, you'd want that. You'd want to have a where it is a situation that can be resolved and people can at least have a modicum of respect and... ⁓

But it didn't work out that way. It just didn't. So it never became something that we could overcome. It never became something that was palpable. It was not. Yeah.

Erin Braxton (16:09)

How long did you last at that organization before you left?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (16:16)

A couple of years, just a couple of years.

Erin Braxton (16:19)

And he was still in the position when you left? Yeah. Did you have any more similar run-ins like that with him?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (16:22)

Yeah.

⁓ on different levels. so it would be again, ⁓ questioning what I, my decision making things like that. And so it would be different kinds of, ⁓ microaggressions and situations like that. And so instead of me shrinking, I get bigger. You know, I get bolder. I'm going to say even more. I'm going to do even more. could be, especially when I know what I am capable of doing.

I'm not going to... Sure. ⁓ I'm going to still, like I still made sure that I was a leader and I still made sure that I was making sure that people, I was visible, that my voice was heard, that I was, my direct reports came to me, ⁓ those kinds of things. And so, you know, I think in some people's minds, especially when they are...

not the same, that they think that if you do something that you're going to just kind of pull back and you're not going, you're going to withdraw. And so it's easier for you to be erased. Even though erasure is not always necessarily, because it can be, it's about reframing that, right? And you move forward. But for me, I, no, I was not going to be let that happen. I was going to still be Tashun and still be leading and still.

be vocal and visual because that's who I am and I'm there to do a job no matter who is going to be you know pressing on me or making me feel a certain kind of way.

Erin Braxton (18:08)

I just, you know, it's just so interesting because he came in, he had been there for a couple months, but he was technically your superior. And, you know, that must have been uncomfortable, I would say, for the remaining couple years that you were there. Was this person in charge of reviewing you or any of that? Okay.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (18:33)

Yes.

But you know, even with that, I always say that I'm going to be my authentic self. And because I know what I'm doing and I know that I'm doing it well. Right. So when it comes to reviews and evaluations, there's nothing you can write down there that you can say that I'm not doing my job because I am doing my job. You know what I mean? And me,

Being who I am and being vocal and being visual, that's who I am. That's who was hired and that's who I'm going to be.

Erin Braxton (19:11)

Right. So, so how did you get into doing your own consulting? How did that happen?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (19:20)

Yeah. Actually, ⁓ I was the chief public defender for the state of Connecticut and I ⁓ was terminated from that position. So at that point I had to pivot. And so I ⁓ did what I would call a strategic pause and I started assessing my strengths.

what is it that I can do? Because one thing my grandmother used to always tell me was, they can take anything away from you except what's in your mind. you got that, whether it's money, titles, houses, clothes, that you can always rebuild it back. And I was steadfast in that and of course, and I'm a spiritual person, so also I have my peace and my grounding and my beliefs. And so with those two things.

Erin Braxton (19:51)

Yep.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (20:10)

I was able to move forward and ⁓ position myself, reframe the crisis, I'll say, to one of preparation. And that's what I encourage people to do. ⁓ And it's worked out. It's worked out in many, many ways. I am grateful that I have the mind that I have, and I was able to rebound without losing my values, without... ⁓

with really embracing who I am because Tashun has not changed not one bit. Not one bit. You know what I mean? And that's what I implore other people to do to find that, know, erasure is not necessarily, it's about evolution. That's what it is for me. Cause I'm constantly evolving. Whether I stay in that one place or not. And so,

what they try to take away, job loss, demotions, it be, stunted growth, whatever it may be, titles, all that stuff. Okay, but then you focus on your core strengths, your resilience, your relationship building, being adaptable, strategic thinking, those are the things that have helped me to get to where I am right now and I'm thriving. I'm so grateful, I'm blessed and I'm...

Erin Braxton (21:10)

Yeah.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (21:34)

unstoppable.

Erin Braxton (21:35)

I want to talk about, because we've been talking about this on the podcast a lot, ⁓ just it's come up, you know, and with different people it comes up in different ways. This assessment that you did, you took of your, what you have to offer. Can you talk about that? Because, ⁓ you know, it's so hard for some of us to see ourselves ⁓

and what all we have to bring to the table. It's so hard for us to see the value. I talked about exercises with AI that can help you see from a neutral perspective. Like, this is what I bring to the table. And most people got it. Somebody in the comments, like, it's not there to help us feel good. Well, you know, sometimes.

You know, it's not about looking forward to help you feel good, but it can help you see things differently, right? So how do you, you know, and I'm sure when you did this, I don't know when you did this, that might not have been the tool or a tool, but how did you go about this assessment of your, of what you had to bring to the table for yourself? Cause everybody will go about this a different way. I can only say what I've done, you know.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (22:56)

Sure, sure. It was very intentional. so taking like two to three days to pause, being strategic, right? And assess at that point in time, the void of emotion. Because, know, at that point, of course, you know, you're upset, things seem crazy. You know, I have a household to maintain that kind of thing. You know, I have bills to pay.

And so, but to stabilize myself. And then really focus on protecting my well-being. So that means my own self-care. And I had a very good friend of mine. ⁓ I've known him for many years, who's also been just a spiritual partner for me. Calling into me to remind me really ⁓ who I am, you know, and my faith base.

That was critical as well too, because know, Erin throughout that process, I had peace. And that's hard to achieve, but I had peace because I remembered that I am the head and not the tail. You know, and that no matter what is done, I am still going to be able to overcome, you know? So it was about taking a couple of days. And then ⁓ I had to...

position myself for growth by thinking about, ⁓ what are my top priorities? What are my core strengths really? And what can I use in order to get myself back in the game? And so that is what I thought about, because as an attorney, I do more than just go to court. I'm...

I am a counselor sometimes, I'm a mom sometimes, a client, I'm the pastor, I am the confidant, you know. So that's, was already doing coaching, but not putting a name to it, right? Because I was helping people to see for themselves what was really in them so they could have transformative epiphanies about, okay, this is what I can do, you know? And then consulting, right? That's always been a part of it too because I've always been out in the

communities, always been helping other people. And so those are my natural things I was doing. So you know what, let's make this into my business. I can do this. Now, I also went to get certified for coaching. got I was able to, you know, do some more learning because you know, we should all be used to be a continual learner. And with that meeting more people, and then tapping into my networks of who I knew, who knew me for who I really was.

and saying, hey, this is what I have, this is what I'm doing. ⁓ And if you're not able to help, you know somebody else who can. You know what mean? So if it just stop with you, who do you know that you can talk about Tishun to? That kind of a thing.

Erin Braxton (25:50)

And so the clients started to come in.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (25:52)

Yeah, you know, and so the, adversity that happened was exposure. It wasn't really erasure, it was exposure because I opened up for me, my core strengths is solidified who I am. I can maintain my peace because I paused and then I went to work and use my natural God-given abilities to do what.

was ⁓ important for me. And now I'm still a boss. I'm a boss with no restrictions. I have the autonomy.

Erin Braxton (26:31)

like what you said, like your natural God given ability. think right now we're so busy trying to be like everyone else. And when you don't succeed in that, it's a failure. ⁓ Not you're a failure. That thing is a failure. And then you feel like a failure and it prevents you from wanting to try, you know,

again, right? So, it's all about really figuring out yourself, like truly who you are. When, ⁓ you know, on my first business, when I had my clothing line, I feel like I was trying to be like everyone else. And I've talked about this, I had this clothing line and I just insisted on trying to be and do it like everyone else.

And it failed. And I should have just done what I wanted to do. I mean, it's so clear now, right? So, yeah, I think it's really hard. You know, and I don't mean to get on to younger people because I was young once. And I just, you know, certain things I just didn't get until I got it.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (27:35)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

us.

Erin Braxton (27:59)

Right? And, you know, that trying to be like other people thing is a big one, you know, and just recognizing, you know, being different is actually the flex. Right.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (28:11)

Right, right, right. And embracing who you are, our self-worth is not attached to titles, it's not attached to what the next thing on TikTok is. Our self-worth is within us. It is our constitution, our foundation. So identifying our own values, our strengths is critical. And remembering that our lived experience.

There is nothing that can put a price tag on that. Nothing at all, you know? So it's not credentials, know, or position. It's about your confidence. It's about your confidence across the different seasons of our lives. Cause we have different seasons. We know one thing for sure, seasons change. So what are we supposed to do? We're supposed to take what we have, no matter what the pressure is, whatever has happened and change along with it. Knowing

Again, sticking to who we are and knowing exactly what we bring to the table and when we enter the room. When we enter the room, you know, we're bringing legacy, power, we're bringing priority, we're bringing perseverance, all of that, you know?

Erin Braxton (29:20)

Yeah.

And, and, and really, okay. So the confidence you said something confidence comes from the doing. It doesn't come from just being, you can't just conjure up confidence in my opinion, you know, like, so the more you do it, the more confidence you have. Right. you know, and another thing you were saying is like, you know, even with this podcast, like I have met,

so many amazing black women. is just like, my God, I feel like, I feel like I'm not, you know, like there's wonderful women here in St. Louis where I am, but I feel like I've opened myself up to the world, not just because I'm trying to get a message out, but because I get to connect with so many people and everybody I meet.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (29:53)

Yeah.

Erin Braxton (30:16)

These women are so beautiful and amazing and they each have like something different to bring and you're just like, oh, oh my God. Like, you know, like, and you know, the, the, the fun part about it is I had no idea. I wouldn't have thought about that. Didn't like the way they, we all think differently. It's just, it's just the best. Right. So

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (30:43)

It is really phenomenal right for Maya Angela Phenomenal and unique that's what's yes Uniqueness yeah, you know my strength may be your weakness vice versa, but boy Yes

Erin Braxton (30:57)

And own it. Listen,

I suck at this. This is not my strong point here. This is not, I don't do this well, but I could do that. And don't hate on those who can. Figure out what it is you can do. Figure that out. Because even sitting up on a platform such as this, people, the haters, they just come out on the keyboard just.

Just like, what is wrong with you? Like, while you're using all of that energy, figure out what you could be doing, right? And I feel like once you find your thing, that kind of just goes away, you know? Well, it probably comes up every now and then. I mean, we all have to work on what we have to work on, but I tell you, being able to just really, and I...

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (31:31)

Mm-hmm.

Erin Braxton (31:53)

I say this sometimes, because you remember when Oprah was like, what is your purpose? You've got to find your purpose. I think Oprah messed a lot of people up with that. know? I do. Because we're looking for this big like aha moment. Like we're going to just, oh my god, like, oh, this is what I meant to do, this whole big, huge thing. And it's not necessarily about that. It's just like, and it's not discovered like that.

She didn't mean it, but she's just doing Oprah, you know? And we're all like, what is my purpose? I don't know what my purpose is. And we're all confused running around here trying to grab a purpose, right?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (32:38)

Yes, I hear you. Yes, I do. So be grabbing your peace to yeah, mental calmness because when you when you're in that place creativity

Erin Braxton (32:44)

Yeah

love my god, I've talked about this.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (32:55)

Yes, your judgment is strengthened and fortified. ⁓ Your presence is increased. mean, it leads to clear decision making and that your confidence, you have stronger influence. So it's about that peace to me. That's the real enhancer for most of us. The peace, you find that you can pave your own road. You can.

Erin Braxton (33:23)

And I've even said, you know, go find something creative to do. Just find something to do so you can think, so you can get your mind off of, like it's an escape. So ideas flow to you about whatever's going on in your life, right? So, ⁓ you know, and it sounds like you've been able to do that with your, I love how you did the assessment and realized, know, I'm, you know.

I'm the one people like to talk to. give advice in this nurturing way, it sounds like. And because of that, I should be a consultant. But then you went out and you got what you needed as far as like, you know, the qualification or the certification. But then you use that to support you on the strength of your legal background.

And that's how you're finding your way, right? As opposed to just like, ⁓ they're doing that, so I should do that. Or I should do that, which is founded and grounded in nothing, which is what a lot of people are out here doing, right? So I just love that because I think really Black women need... ⁓

We're just the most creative, we know this, right? Everything we touch, what we bring to it is unmatchable, right? I think though that a lot of us are still struggling with, we've been beat down, we've been conditioned, we've been... ⁓

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (34:58)

That's right. That's right.

Erin Braxton (35:15)

conditioned even to think small, to be small, play small, to pull back. And not because anybody's trying to, not, well sometimes, even when our family does it to us, it's out of love, it's out of concern, it's out of protection. But I think a lot of that is so in us that we don't dare to imagine what's possible. ⁓

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (35:41)

Gosh, when you said that, Aaron, I thought about the new Jill Scott ⁓ album.

Erin Braxton (35:46)

I still have not listened. am so sorry. Okay, okay. I'm gonna go listen.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (35:51)

Yes, there's one song called Be Great. And it has this trombone shorty in the background. know how it says it a thumping beat and you're like, why not? Be Great, why not? Why not? Why not? I was like, Jill, you just said that. Yeah. Because it's true. There is nothing stopping us but us.

Erin Braxton (36:03)

Why not?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (36:14)

You know what I mean? Yes. Now let's be real. Yes. There are forces out there. There are people out there that are, ⁓ you know, are trying to actively destroy, seek, kill and destroy, right? Or to stop your progress and trying to do that kind of stuff. But when you know who you are and you bask in your abilities and you put that out there,

Even when there are obstacles in the road and there are things that throwing your path that make you pivot, there's power in that because then you go to what is the next thing and you make that great.

Erin Braxton (36:54)

And when you can find your way out of those situations, when you can use your brain, you're clever, you can maneuver, you learn how to like kind of like bob and weave and okay, they've closed this door, let me get it this way. When you learn that, that's like, that's like, ⁓ it's just, that's, I don't want to say it's skill building, but it's confidence building in a way.

That I can't even explain right so somebody just like closes a door on you. So Okay, there's you know, how can I go around the building? You know what I'm saying? How can I do something different? You know and and and then to though it's The older you get you just realize how ridiculous people are right and the

the gatekeeping and all the things that people try to do, you can look at it and be like, that is not an obstacle, okay? That is just... That's right. That combined with like, I don't know, TikTok, the internet, somebody's got a way, right? That maybe you didn't think about, right? Yes. And you just have to figure out how to find your way.

Yes. You know, I just, look at people sometimes and you know, you know, you get around people who have supposedly made it. You know, Obama talks about that when, you know, he was at the table with all the world leaders. And most, Obama talked about that. I think when she got to Harvard and I heard another creator talk about that you get there and this is supposed to be the cream of the crop. then you're looking around like. Mm-hmm.

wow, okay. And I've felt like that on certain levels, like you meet people and you're impressed because they have whatever you think you want. And then you're like, okay. You know, it's just like, you're just as messed up, if not more than I am, or you have the same problem I have, you know? So just really looking at people as human as opposed to looking at them as...

you know, them up on some sort of platform, deifying them, the role, the position, the thing.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (39:21)

That's right. And then thinking about too, for some of those folks, what they had to do or give up to get where they are. We all have to have our value system, right? There's some things that we just are not going to do. But for some people, they don't have that. They don't have those boundaries. They're going to do whatever it takes to get what they feel is ⁓ the ultimate end goal.

That's why you have to know who you are. You got to walk in that thing and you have to walk in it victoriously so that the gatekeeper is there, there's another door, there's another door and there's another door after that one too. You know what I mean? It builds resiliency and for my book, and I believe that resilience...

is something that's innate for us, right? We have had to keep going and find another way in order to be able to be right here right now. Our ancestors have done so much for us. And now we have to do so much more for the next generation so that letting them see that that confidence, that

making strategic moves that are in alignment with who you are and what you stand for is going to push the envelope. Not just because you have your MBA or not just because you are affiliated with a certain person.

Erin Braxton (40:54)

Talk about the values, we talked about knowing your value. That's one thing. But you brought it up twice, and I wanted to touch on it, and you brought it up again. And being in alignment with your values for whatever it is you choose to do. Can you speak about that a little bit more?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (41:14)

Definitely. That's where that self-assessment comes in, that strategic thinking comes in. Because in that time I told you earlier about the couple of days where I had to just separate the emotion and distraction and get down to, okay, who I am and what I am able to do. That feeds into...

what I believe and what I'm willing to do and what is going to allow me, what decision I make will allow me to sleep well at night. You know I mean? And, know, and knowing that I'm not going to sacrifice who I am and what I believe in and what I stand for, for anything, any amount of money or for any position or title.

Erin Braxton (41:44)

Right.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (42:02)

because those things are gonna come naturally when you're working in and moving in alignment. You see what I'm saying? That stuff, the energy you put out is gonna come right back to you. So value means what do I feel is most important for me? For me, in that season of my life, because sometimes values shift too.

Erin Braxton (42:29)

So give us an example of like one of your values that you wanted in alignment with your consulting business.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (42:42)

Transparency. I'm a big person on letting you know this is what I think and this is what I see. so of course there are times you have to sometimes wait, like when you're going to say certain things. But the point is that you have to say it and you gotta stand ten toes down behind it.

Erin Braxton (42:43)

Okay.

Thanks

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (43:07)

And of course, the person who's receiving it doesn't have to always agree with you. But if it's about transforming and moving forward and pivoting with power, then you've got to be able deal with the reality and the facts. Facts, not emotion, not, my goodness, how could you think this or say this? No, you said this, no, why? Because what is this preparing me for? It's not about...

my goodness, why is this happening? It's what it's appearing before. What can I take? What has happened? Reframe that and shift myself forward for my preparation period now. It's the mindset.

Erin Braxton (43:53)

So

you being transparent with your clients, them being transparent with you, there's no other way to get there, I guess.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (44:06)

Yes, growth and authenticity, right? Because we talked earlier about, you know, having to shrink or having to do something different. ⁓ No, it's about standing in it. And sometimes whatever it is, is uncomfortable. It is, ⁓ it makes you off-kilter sometimes. But you find your way because you know, again, you focus on who you are.

what's important to you. And you've already done the work because you've had your strategic sessions in this world, sessions, it's not just once. It happens over time because things come at you at different times. ⁓ That's the key, it's key because it's growth, it all comes back to growth.

Erin Braxton (44:57)

Right, Yeah, that growth piece. was talking to somebody the other day, she's like, there's just so many things. She's young. I say young because she's like 31. She's like so many things. I just am trying to learn and just I am like, it's coming. It's coming, you know. I know we want to jump to Z, but you know, we're not at 70, you're not at Z.

Yes. You just not. gotta, ugh, you know, like it's like when people say, ⁓ I only knew then what I know now. I got it. You know, but we gotta go through what we gotta go through. Yeah.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (45:40)

Yes, we do.

And we don't stop fighting. We have to, the fight does not end because you're fighting for peace. You're fighting for your redefined success, ⁓ your health. You're fighting for that, and for your identity, to claim it and own it in every room.

Erin Braxton (46:04)

Yeah, yeah,

you're right. It's a never-ending sort of journey. Like, we're constantly evolving.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (46:13)

Yes, yes, yes. said that to you earlier. I am evolving and it's about evolving, you know? The pivot.

Erin Braxton (46:21)

and enjoying the evolution.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (46:24)

Yes! ⁓ Yes, yes, yes. The pivot is not about failure, it's about evolution.

Erin Braxton (46:32)

And it doesn't always feel good. what did I hear? This guy. Like, ⁓ you know, when they say, you know, I, you know, I, you know, whatever you went through to get here, when you're learning the lessons or whatever it is you're trying to get, it does feel like shit sometimes. You know what I'm It doesn't feel good, but you've just, you can't give up because you've gotta know. You've just gotta know.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (46:59)

right.

Erin Braxton (47:01)

because this is the only way it is that it's going to be okay, right? And there's something that's gonna come out of that, right?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (47:11)

Yes, yes. Ultimately something good. may not be initially, but ultimately something good.

Erin Braxton (47:18)

It may take a minute, you know? I find that ⁓ when change is happening, sometimes we try to hold on to it so tight.

Sometimes you just need to let it go and just kind of lean into the change so that you're just not fighting against it because every time a door is slammed, people say, our windows closed, all the things. All the anecdotes or the cliches and all this, you're like, ah, whatever, you don't hear that. But the old people were right. They would say these things and now you're like, I mean.

So yeah, I know somebody who just recently lost their job and I hope they don't, they're close to me and I hope they don't spin themselves into a complete stroke, you know what I'm saying? But it's like, you know this is a good thing. Like you don't know it now, but we're very different the way we think. So yeah, you know, sometimes.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (48:19)

Thanks.

Okay.

Erin Braxton (48:26)

When I've lost jobs, when I've lost clients, it hurts. It hurts your ego, hurts your... Of course. It hurts, you're rejected, all of the things. But you always end up in a better place.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (48:40)

Yes you do. We prove positive with that, Erin, both of us, right?

Erin Braxton (48:44)

Yes.

tell the people where they can find you because are you able, you're consult, so you can consult like anywhere, like anywhere. Yes. Okay. So where can people find you? Because like, I feel like your style of working with people is very peaceful and nice. know what saying?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (49:07)

Thank you so much for that compliment. ⁓ You know, yeah, so for my consulting and for my coaching, because I do personal and executive coaching. ⁓

Erin Braxton (49:14)

Yeah.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (49:16)

But I have a website, it's www.bodenlewisgroup.com. I'm on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn as well too. And just look for the Bowdoin Lewis Consulting Group or my name Tishun Bowdoin Lewis, either one of those and it'll pull up. I'm always available to, and I love helping people. yeah.

Erin Braxton (49:38)

You

can tell.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (49:40)

Thank you. Yeah, for real. I do hope that people listen to the podcast and are inspired and have some hope, you know, and know that others have done it and that they'll do it too.

Erin Braxton (49:52)

Give us some examples of individually how you work with people to help them so we know.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (50:00)

Sure, so ⁓ there's initial consultation. if you reach out to me, there's a virtual consultation and we talk about, know, what's a good fit for you? What is it that you're trying to do? What is it that maybe is something, if you're in transition, right? Whether you, transition is professionally, personally, it's okay. And then, ⁓

then I talk to you about, what would be the best thing? Coaching, which is again, helping you to figure out for yourself, what is your next step, your next great move and what's gonna help you? Or consulting, where I could give you, know, actual lived experience advice about, okay, this is what has happened and this is what can happen. Or a combination of the two. It could also be mentorship. could be...

situation where it's just someone to talk to because there's no one else to talk to. Now I'm not a therapist, no, but ⁓ I am someone who can help position for transformation.

Erin Braxton (51:03)

Nice. Do you do any groups?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (51:06)

I do. I ⁓ could be individual or groups as well too. Or organizations. Like I just did a workshop for an organization over the weekend. ⁓ I build curriculum for Thrift and Things and you know I do workshops all the time as well too and that could be virtual or in person. So yeah.

Erin Braxton (51:24)

Very, very good. Well, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing. know, like you're just, you seem like very just warm and cozy and, know, nerd-free. Yeah.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (51:35)

No.

Thank you. I've heard that before and I'm so grateful for that because yeah, it's cold, right? So you need someone who's objective not a family member or even a close friend To just kind of get that kind of because energy is everything energy is everything

Erin Braxton (51:56)

And a lot of people don't have it, so it's nice ⁓ if you can find somebody. A lot of people don't, they just don't have a person for that, right?

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (52:02)

Yeah.

Yes,

I'm here Aaron. I'm

Erin Braxton (52:10)

Well, thank you so much for joining us and thank you guys so much for joining us as well and check out Tashawn's information. I flashed it on the screen, but it's also in the notes description all at. ⁓ we will see you in the next episode.

Tashun Bowden-Lewis (52:28)

Thank you.