INTRO

Sheryl Davis

I had a patient who, because I was Black was not confident in my ability to care for them.

Karen Donaldson

She picked up the phone and she said, "Hi, Mr. XXX. There's a Black woman who said she's Karen Donaldson who's here to see you." 

Erin Braxton

Girl. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka-Gipson

And she's like, you know, just rah, rah, rah. And I can, like, she's so close to me, I can feel like her spittle on my neck. 

Valencia Dantzler 

All of a sudden he came out and he said, "Look, you will never be at my level." And I was like, "Huh? You will never be at my level. You could never be at my level. You're going to stay low and I'm going to be here." 

Tashun Bowden-Lewis

He comes to me and says, "Do you mind sitting on the other side?" And first I was taken aback and I, I'm thinking, I said, you know, "What did you mean the other side?" "Not next to me, but on another chair on the other side of that U shape. So not in the front anymore, but on the, one of the sides.

Ashley Morgan

 It did not matter what this man said. I was not helping him. 

Michele Forbes

And I remember saying something in the meeting and then she was like, You know what, Michelle, can you just hold on? Can you hold, please? Can you hold? "And I was like," Wait, wait. "I was like," Oh, I'm so sorry, "because we were, we were via Zoom. And I said," Oh, I'm so sorry." I'm like, "What happened?" And she was like, "Well, just wait." And I was like, "Wait." And I was like, "I'm sorry." I said, "Can everyone hear me?" 

Nadine Foster

Oh, we got a lot of Black shoppers here. They don't really buy. 

Monique McKinney

So the words that I saw, loud and aggression. 

PODCAST EPISODE

Erin Braxton

Hey, everyone. 

Welcome to the Coffee No Cream Podcast. My name is Aaron Braxton and I am the host of Coffee No Cream. Here on Coffee No Cream, we are unapologetically dedicated to Black women and we share what I like to call coffee no cream moments, those things that happen to us Black women in business and in life just because we are Black women. 

Today, we have part four of the Summer Rewind series. We are revisiting highlights of what Coffee No Cream has been all about since the very beginning. We are a little bit more than a year old. We launched in May of 2025. And I have put out 62 episodes. And while I am over here strategizing and, and, and recording and, and creating new content for you, I though it'd be a great idea to just revisit some of the highlights of what we've seen from me, our guests since I started in 2025. So today I've put together some of the more interesting coffee no cream moments, those coffee, no cream moments, dealing with business, with dealing with trying to get your bag, what happens to us in the workplace, what we go through as Black women, which is the complete and total premise of this podcast when we launched. We are going to look back at some of my earlier episodes and bring it all the way through. So I hope you enjoy it. 

For those of you who found me later, this will give you an idea of what was going on in the beginning. Also, I'm going to link all of the full episodes below. So if you want to catch those in full, you can click those links in the description. Or I'm going to also put them in the corner up top as the clips are playing from those episodes. But really interesting stuff, stuff that's downright physical. We've been called angry and aggressive. We've been asked not to sit next to a white man. We've been challenged about our identity announced as a Black woman is waiting for you. A black woman says she's so-and-so. Yeah, it's real interesting. You don't sound like you're Black on the phone. All the crazy things. So before we get into it though, guys, I want to ask that you please like, please share, please subscribe. A lot of you guys who watch me don't subscribe. It would help the channel out so much if you did. We've got the Facebook group. The link is below. We've got free educational resources, almost a thousand of them. You can go to coffeenocream.com/free. And that is it. So I hope you enjoy this rewind. We'll see you over there. 

Sheryl Davis

So I had a patient who, because I was Black was not confident in my ability to care for them. But the kicker is, it was a Black person, you know, plastically conditioned. You know I guess they are the notion that if it's white, it's right. Everything that I came in, tried to do for the patient, questioned, "How long have you been a nurse? How long have you been doing this? What school you go to?" And everything else. But and she even went further to say she wanted a white nurse. Okay. 

Erin Braxton

You go in to see this patient and tell us what happened. Like how did it go? 

Sheryl Davis

Immediately. You know, you go in, you know, "Hi, you know, I'm Cheryl, you know, welcome." You know, if they're a new patient or, you know you know, you just introduce yourself and let them know, you know, I'm your nurse caring for you tonight. And from the, from the beginning, could just tell by the way she looked at you. So how long have you been here? What are you working on? Those type of things. Just trying to break the ice and everything because, you know, I know their history and everything else, but part of your, your neurological assessment is your memory and things like that. So you can do a lot of assessment on conversation. Do they know where they are? Do they know the date? Do they know the time? You know, do they know the setting? That type of thing. 

And She was just looking at me like. And I said, "Are you uncomfortable?" And everything else. And she said, "Um, how long have you been a nurse?" And I was like, at that point, over 20 years, "How long have you been at this hospital?" I said, you know, I think at that time I had been there like five years or something like that. And I said, "What's wrong?" And she said, "Um, you know, I just, I just, you know, I would prefer, you know, to have, you know, a different nurse." And I was like, "Well, I, you know, is something wrong with, you know, what's going on? You know, this is my first time having you. You know, if you have some concerns you know, let me know. Did something happen? Everything else." And she was like, "Uh, no, you know, just let me talk to the supervisor." And I said, "It's better in those situations not to press the patient." You know what I'm saying? You know, like, "Well, why you want to see the supervisor?" And also the stuff, you know? It's like, that's fine. You know, sure, I'll go get the supervisor and everything else. And ultimately, she wanted a white nurse. 

Erin Braxton

So you found this out after this, the supervisor made, told you after their conversation. Because the supervisor you were out of, you were out of the room. 

Sheryl Davis

Yes. So of course, after the, the supervisor came in and talked to the patient you know, I'm, I was standing by because I knew that I had never had the patient before. And, you know, like, what, what could I have gone awry within the first, you know, five, 10 minutes of having the patient? And the supervisor was Caucasian. And so when I came out, she was like, "Uh, yeah this is strange. I've never had this before." And I said, "What, what's going on?" And she said, "She wants a white nurse." 

Erin Braxton

Wow. Wow. 

Karen Donaldson

I started to become referred. So what happened is executive assistants of other C-suite executives, so COOs, CSOs, CS - CEOs, they used to call my office, my assistant. At the time it was just me. Then my assistant would say, "Hey, we would like to book Karen Donaldson for..." At that time, I had a three-day communications workshop and I had a three-week one. And they'd book me, we'd send them the invoice, and they'd pay me, not knowing who I was, what I looked like, because someone referred me. So they saw my client, asked the client. They said, "Karen's a person. They simply hired me. 

So here is my coffee no cream moment." It was an apartment building, or sorry, an office building. Went in, took the elevator up to the floor. I went up to the front desk, and the front desk was one of those desks where it's a little bit higher, and the receptionist looks up at you, and you know, you can't see their computer. So that was a setting. And I said, "Hi, my name's Karen Donaldson. I'm here to see ABC." Can't share the name. ABC. Client ABC. So receptionist looked down, looked back up, and she said, "Are you Karen Donaldson?" And I said, "Yes, I'm Karen Donaldson. I'm here to see client ABC." She's taking a bit long now, but you know, got it, whatever. Organizations work how they work. I'm standing there still, just kind of leaning over hands on top. She looks down again and she looks up and she said, "Are you Karen Donaldson's assistant?" And I said, "No." 

Erin Braxton

Girl, what? 

Karen Donaldson

No. I'm Karen Donaldson. It gets better. So she looks down again and she looks back up and she said, "Is Karen being dropped off at the front?" So once again, I told her it was Karen. Told her I wasn't the assistant. She didn't believe me because you know Karen Donaldson, as you shared, ambiguous. You don't know what to expect. And I want people to see this. This is all of me. This is how I show up. I am jewelry lover, jewelry queen. I will never make myself small for anyone. This is how I show up. I don't care who I'm coaching. You could be the prime minister, pres - you get Karen Donaldson in her full effect, right? 

Erin Braxton

With her, Her twist, her braid, All of it. Absolutely.

Karen Donaldson

However I choose to rock it that month, that specific day is what you get, right? But nonetheless, she said it's Karen Donaldson being dropped off at the front. So I actually looked over to the front and I looked back and I said, "I'm Karen Donaldson." And here's how I want to preface this. This has happened over and over, and I want to tell you like the progression. The first time it happened to me, something similar, just are, are you, you're Karen Donaldson? That type of thing. I got so angry inside. And I had to pause and literally just talk to myself and click myself and say, "Nope, you're here to do a job. What she thinks of you has nothing to do with you." But I was pissed. I was seeming. 

Erin Braxton

Obviously. 

Karen Donaldson

Yeah. And you know, but at the same token, I'm like, "Okay, I'm here to work with a CEO. They paid my invoice. So this is when I'm a newer communications coach. The money's great and I need the money at that time." 

Erin Braxton

Yes, of course. 

Karen Donaldson

In that instance, you want to maintain your professionalism. It was insulting. I felt freaking insulted. I literally felt insulted in that moment. But I had decided in that moment I would get to decide what happens next. 

Erin Braxton

Okay. So what happened? 

Karen Donaldson

I looked up and said, "No, I'm Karen Donaldson and I'm here to see X, Y, Z." Right? 

Erin Braxton

Right. 

Karen Donaldson

And then I sat down and here is what the person did next. They picked up the phone and they called my client. And here's the other thing. I have never seen my client before. It was a referral, invoices sent, payment sent. 

Erin Braxton

Right. 

Karen Donaldson

They didn't Google me, whatever, you know? Your colleague said that you're the person to go to, you just go. It's over, right? There's no research needed. She picked up the phone and she said, "Hi, Mr. XXX. There's a Black woman who said she's Karen Donaldson who's here to see you." 

Erin Braxton

Girl. No. 

Karen Donaldson

Boom. Yes, she did. 

Erin Braxton

Okay. This, This is in. I, I want to tell everyone, Karen is Canadian. Was this in Canada? 

Karen Donaldson

Yes, it was in Canada. 

Erin Braxton

Okay. Okay. So similar stuff obviously is happening. Wow. Absolutely. Okay, okay, okay, okay. In that moment, okay, you're probably even like triply pissed. 

Karen Donaldson

Right. 

Erin Braxton 

Because you've told this woman multiple times, "I'm Karen Donaldson. This woman is questioning who you say you are." And then had the audacity to pick up the phone, call the man, and call out that you were Black. Black Woman. Girl. Say I'm Karen Donaldson. Okay. 

Karen Donaldson

At this point I had sat down. She said to have a seat after I told her why I'm Karen not waiting to me. 

Erin Braxton

Wa She trying to whisper? Was she saying - 

Karen Donaldson

She was trying, she was trying to whisper. But there was no one else in the waiting area. It's her and I. It's, we can hear each other breathe. So she picked it up and whatever she was doing, I, I heard it. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

They had brought in this older woman, white woman who was she had retired, but they brought her in to kind of help with some of the administrative support. And so she would come in and she would try. She came in and a part of her role was to help schedule our interviews. But the premise was you had to schedule it under our pseudonym. You couldn't give them our real name. You couldn't give them any of our contact information or any of that. That was really, really important. You know, shortly after, after she got there, she was trying to schedule our appointments or our interviews. And one of the first interviews that she scheduled for me, she literally put my full name and my personal cell phone out there. So I'm at home one evening and I get a call and it's someone calling me by name on my personal call. And I was like, "What the heck?" So the next day I got to work and I shared that with my boss who was our team lead. And I was like, "I don't want her scheduling my interviews anymore." Now, prior to her coming, we were already, we were like doing it ourselves, scheduling our own interviews. But I let my boss know that I didn't want her scheduling my interviews and here's why. So he was like, "Fair enough, that's fine." I guess she took offense to that. And so after that, she would not speak to me. She would, you know, bring in her dirty cookies for the rest of the team and would like hand them out to everybody, wouldn't give me any - 

Erin Braxton

Dirty Cookies. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

Right. Dirty cookies. 

Erin Braxton

We, we know how we are about eating everybody's Food. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

Yeah. She was not going to be any favorites. And so, you know, she would, you know, speak to everybody. She wouldn't speak to me. One day we were in a meeting and I was talking and she, for whatever reason, started interjecting. And I just kind of put my hand up. I don't know if you guys, I just kind of put my hand up like that. And she like, but I kept talking. I didn't look at her. I just put my hand up like this and kept talking to my boss. And she's, "You're not going to give me the hand." And she just like goes off. And I just keep talking. And my boss, meanwhile, he's like, "Okay, okay." You like trying to calm her down. I just keep talking. We get through the meeting. That was pretty much it. 

So about a couple of weeks later, my boss was on vacation. We had got another young lady on the team, and she was more senior than the rest of us. And so she was kind of the boss in his absence. The other girl on the team, the other white girl I mentioned, she was like a typical. Like she didn't know how to do anything. She was really pretty. Like she wasn't really pretty. She was cute. But I think - 

Erin Braxton

Was she Younger? 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

She was younger and it was always like, "Oh my God, I don't know. Oh, I can't. Can someone help me?" And the guys would like fall over themselves to help her with whatever. Like anything she complained about, they were, you know, at her beck and call. So she happened to have been working on a case and a part of what we do, we do the investigations, then we send it to another team for adjudications. And so they would basically take our investigation, our reports and all that. So we would do their interview, write a report, you know, do any other subs - other investigations around it. And then we would write the report and send it to adjudications where they would make a decision. And so she was at the point where her caseload was always backed up. Like she was always behind on her caseload. So one of the young ladies who happened to be Black that worked in our adjudications team, she, I guess, reached out to her to say, "Hey, we're waiting on this case. You haven't sent it yet." Now I'm minding my own business over here doing my own thing and I hear her sharing like, "Oh my God, she's reaching out to me, asking about my case. When am I going to be done?" Everything was just like this drama. So I'm like, "Well, just tell her a date so you can set the expectation. Like it's not a big deal." I didn't say the not a big deal part, but I was just kind of like a matter of fact, like, we'll just give her a date so that way she can know and you can set the Expectation. 

Erin Braxton

Yeah. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

Grab my change, go out to the vending machine to meet my friend mostly to chat about this new show. So now when I come out of the vending area, I go to the right towards my office. My friend, she goes to the left towards her office. And as I'm coming out, the older white woman that's there, the administrative support, she's walking down the hallway. So I pass her and now she's behind my other friend that works in adjudication. So she goes into her office, into the adjudications office. And I don't know where the administrative lady goes. I go back to my desk and I'm minding my business. So a few minutes later, the white lady administrator, she comes in and she tells the other girl like, "Oh, you don't have to reach out to the woman in adjudications because Kiwanza was already talking to her." And I'm like, "Excuse you?" Like no, I wasn't. I was like, "And contrary to popular belief, we all don't look alike." And so I just, you know, kept kind of doing my work, but I was irritated that. And she was like, "Yes, you did. I seen you." And I was like, "Uh, no, you didn't." And I just kind of left it at that. 

And so a few minutes pass, and I'm still kind of irritated. Right. So then I go back to the vending machine because I really wanted to get my snack. 

Erin Braxton

Yeah. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

And so I'm coming back in the office and I got to pass everybody's cubicle to get to mine. Mine is the third one down the hallway. And so I come in and I, I kind of stop at the first cubicle because I'm still kind of like, like, what is she talking about? You know, I was really irritated. 

Erin Braxton

Yeah. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

So I stop at the first cubicle and I'm, I stop in a way where my right, like I'm still walking down the hallway, but I kind of turn my upper body. So my lower body is still kind of facing the direction I'mwalking, if that makes sense. And so I look at the lady, I say "Can I talk to you for a second?" And she was like, "No." I was like, "Okay, that's fine." I said, "But stop putting my name." I din say like, "Don't put my name in your mouth." But I was like - 

Erin Braxton

Yeah, yeah. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

But don't talk, don't, don't talk about me. Like, don't talk about me if there's something you don't know. And and I just kind of turned around. And before I can like turn my upper body, she was like here, like right in my face. Now, at the time, I wore my hair straight. It was relaxed and I had like a short bob. And she was like "You don't tell me what I can say. You don't tell me I seen you talking to her." And I was like, "No, you didn't. But now I'm facing and I'm walking towards my office." Now this woman, remind you, she had retired and they brought her back. So she was well into her 60s. 

Erin Braxton

Okay. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

And so now she's like in my face and I'm like walking, like trying to get back to my desk. And she's like, you know, just rah, rah, rah. And I can, like, she's so close to me, I can feel like her spittle on my neck. 

Erin Braxton

Mm-mm. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

And my hair is like going like this. And the other lady, she grabs her because mind you, I'm walking away. So the other lady, the one that's the acting boss, she grabs her. Like she's literally holding her and she's this, this old lady is walking so fast trying to get to me that she is like almost directly - Like Physically. 

Erin Braxton

Physically On you. Okay

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

And she says, "What are you gonna do? Go to EEO like y'all always do?" And I'm just like, "Okay." 

Erin Braxton

Oh my God. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

So in this moment, but now I'm walking past everybody else's cubicle and I'm thinking surely somebody is like asked, you know, like, "What the heck?" 

Erin Braxton

Right, right. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

But I'm walking past these cubicles, Erin, and everybody is just like this. Nobody is looking up. So I get to my cubicle and by the time I get to my cubicle, she is like, like reaching for me. And this woman like grabs her with both hands at this point and she snatches and she's holding her back like this. And she is foaming at the mouth, yelling all kind of, you know, "I heard, I seen you talking to her. You don't talk." Like she was just angry. And I'm standing here like, okay. I knew in that moment, I was like, if I respond the way that I want to respond, which is at a minimum, mush her in her face. Right. I know that I was like, "They're going to drag me out of here." 

Erin Braxton 

Right. If you responded like she responded, they would've dru- drugged you out of here. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

Exactly. And so I was so angry. And finally the, you know, the other lady, she drags her off and takes her back to their cubicle wherever they are. Nobody else, none of my other team members say anything.That's why I said it wasn't really special, didn't feel special because we should have been like. I come from a military background. And so when we talk about team, like team is important to me. 

Erin Braxton

Sure. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

And the fact that everybody like dropped their heads, buried their heads, act like they didn't see or hear anything. Was crazy to me. And so I, you know, I gather myself and I'm just like, "What the heck?" Like I'm fuming. Like I can feel like my whole body is shaking. Right. So I ended up going to my car and I called my husband. And by the time he got on the phone, I was just like bawling. 

Erin Braxton

Of course. You're so mad. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

Exactly. So Mad. 

Erin Braxton

Yeah, yeah. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

And I was like, I had never been that mad before in my life. 

Erin Braxton

Yeah. Yeah. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

But I was like just so angry. And you know, he kind of talked me off the ledge. 

And because of the work that we were doing, we had like mentors. So we had our, our boss, then we had like two mentors. And then we had like our chief and our de - our, our deputy chief and our chief. So there was a lot of leadership above us. And again, I mean, the work was presented as if it was like a special assignment and we were special to be selected and all this stuff. And so my husband's like, "Well, you need to go talk to, you know, talk to somebody like to get, you know to, to present this. Like what happened?" And I'm like, "Okay." So I'm like trying to calm myself down. So all our leadership was in a different building. So I walk over to their building and I go to the front office and the, you know, the secretary, she was there and she could see that I was kind of shaken. And I'm asking for like the two mentors first. So I'll just say Jim and Bob. And I was like, "Is, is Jim here?" You know? And she's just like, "Oh, no, Jim is out today." And I was like, "Okay." And I'm just like trying to hold it together. Like I can only get out the words that I need to get out because that lump in my throat was just like 

Erin Braxton

- Yeah. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

Suffocating. 

Erin Braxton

Yeah. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

So then I, you know, I kind of take a deep breath. I'm like, "Is Bob here?" And she's like "No, Bob is not here either now." At this point, she can kind of see like, okay, what's going on? And then I asked for the deputy chief and she's like, "He's not here." But I can see, I'll call him Mac, who was the chief. And he was racist. There was no question he was racist. Like I didn't even talk to him. He didn't talk to me. And it was fine. But he was the only one that I've seen. And so I'm asking for all the other people that I know that I have a relationship with that I can talk to. All of them white men, by the way. And and so when she says that Jim, which is the deputy chief, he's not there. At this point, I'm just kind of like, I, I can't even hold it together anymore. So she comes from around her desk. She grabs me up. She's like, "But Mac is here." So she takes me to like his office. And before I know it, she takes me to his office. I'm sitting down in front of him and I am bawling. And he's just sitting there. 

Erin Braxton

And Mac, Mac's The racist one. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

Yes. 

Erin Braxton

Okay. Gotcha. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

Yeah. But he is like the big boss. He's in charge of everything, like the whole organization. Right. And I'm sitting here and I'm just like in tears. And I'm trying to get myself together. I'm mad that I'm crying at work. I'm mad that I have to be in the, you know, everything. I'm just angry. And I'm trying to get myself together. And he's sitting there like unbothered, like, like what? 

Erin Braxton

Yeah. Yeah. 

Dr. Kwanza Falaka

And I'm just like. So, you know, I'm trying to explain to him what happened. I'm talking over tears. And he says, "Well, I think you've, you've spent enough time in this organization and it's probably time for you to move on anyway." 

Valencia Dantzler

I found myself working as an EMT for six years on the ambulance. I mean, saving people's lives, pumping chest. I really loved it. I would have, you know, I'm the type of person I can talk to a person and they can just feel like they're on cloud nine, right? I can m - I, it's a gift from God. You know, I let them see the good parts of life. I've had suicidal patients in the back, and by the time we get to the hospital, they're laughing. Okay? So it's just a gift that I had. But, you know, I had a paramedic. It was usually two on an ambulance, right? So EMT and a paramedic. 

Erin Braxton

Tell us The Difference Really quick. Yeah, Yeah

Valencia Dantzler

Paramedic has more education. That's it. They just have more education, maybe a little bit more experience, that kind of thing, right? 

Erin Braxton

Okay. 

Valencia Dantzler

I mean, let's just say I was EMT for six years, and so this, you know, I was more of a senior EMT. 

Erin Braxton 

Okay. And so anyway, well, I'm just going to say, okay. You know, he was okay. You know, you know, I'm always good with people, right? 

Erin Braxton

White male? How. 

Valencia Dantzler

Huh?

Erin Braxton

White male? 

Valencia Dantzler

Yeah. White male. White male. 

Erin Braxton

Okay. Okay. 

Valencia Dantzler

Yeah. Yeah. White male. And I would say he's probab - would probably put him in the category of a trumpster. Okay? I'm sure he's a trumpster. Okay? Unless he's changed his ways. And so we were just having a conversation one day, and all of a sudden he came out and he said, "Look, you will never be at my level." And I was like, "Huh? You will never be at my level. You could never be at my level. You're going to stay low and I'm going to be here." You know? 

Erin Braxton

Did he Say those exact words?

Valencia Dantzler

He said those exact words. 

Erin Braxton

How did you guys even end up in this conversation? Like what was that? 

Valencia Dantzler

I Mean, it just started off as a casual really conversation between the two of us, right?. But he had always given me like little signs, you know? Like, I mean, if it wasn't, if he wasn't trying to. And I grew up in the church, right? But if he wasn't trying to, you know, steer me into his far right, you know, evangelical type of way, right? Yeah. You know, this was the type of person that he had a wife, but I think they had like nine kids, you know? And it was like his wife was forbidden to work, that kind of thing. Okay. I mean, I would hear this and I'd be like, "Okay." I never criticized them or anything like that. And as far as my work is concerned, I mean, my goodness, I had people writing in telling what great service, patient service I gave them and all that. So I don't know. My grandmother always said cream will always rise to the top and I've always been cream. Okay? No matter what. And so sometimes when people see that, they want to strike that down. So I feel that he just felt like he saw the cream rising to the top and he wanted to put that thing to a halt and put me in my place by telling me this. But it actually did the opposite. No, it actually did the opposite because thank God I know who I am. I know what I'm capable Of. 

Tashun Bowden-Lewis

In our board meetings, I'm the only Black woman in the room and I'm the only one who has that ranking. And so it was in a U-shaped kind of situation with the tables. So I'm in the head of the middle of the U with the person who is presiding over the meeting at that time, a white male. And so the first meeting is fine. It goes smoothly. But the second meeting, he comes to me and says, "Do you mind sitting on the other side?" And first I was taken aback and I, I'm thinking, I said, you know, "What did you mean the other side?" Not next to me, but on another chair on the other side of that U shape. So not in the front anymore, but on the, the one of the sides. 

Erin Braxton

If this is the U.m. I wonder if I could draw this on the screen. So he was at the top of the U. 

Tashun Bowden-Lewis

With me originally, yes. Right. 

Erin Braxton

And he wanted you to be on the side of The U. 

Tashun Bowden-Lewis

Yes. 

Erin Braxton

Okay. 

Tashun Bowden-LewisYes. 

Erin Braxton

Okay. Okay. 

Tashun Bowden-Lewis

And that took me back. And I was I, I was shocked. Because again, I'm the person who is in leadership. And so I did. I did. And but that was something that was very jarring to me. And it, all kinds of things went through my, my head and through my psyche, because I'm thinking, you know, why don't you want me to sit here next to you when I am the person who is leading the situation here? 

Erin Braxton

So leading the meeting and leadership at the organization, because what is his role compared to like your role? 

Tashun Bowden-Lewis

Right. He was actually leading that meeting, but I'm leading the organization. And so as a number, as we're the top two people there. 

Erin Braxton

Okay. 

Tashun Bowden-Lewis

So then I should be sitting right next to you because questions are going to be fielded and I have to, you know, give reports and say certain things and that kind of a thing. And so since I'm in leadership over the organization, I should have been sitting right there next to Yeah. 

Erin Braxton

So was this at a law firm? 

Tashun Bowden-Lewis

No, it was at so I did it wasn't at a law firm. It, I was a part of a, an agency and it was kind of a private situation, private agency, but it was there were other lawyers who were there. There were other people that were there. But again, ranking wise, it should have been myself and him. Because if you have, with any kind of organization, you have a presiding officer who's over some sort of a board or something like that. And then you have the president or CEO who's a person who is leading and executing. And that was my role. 

Erin Braxton

Okay. 

Tashun Bowden-Lewis

And so everyone was aware of who I was and what I was doing. But by that shift, that very, that visual shift and it changes everything because now why, why is she not sitting up there and why is she not in the forefront since she definitely is leading?. 

Erin braxton

So you, you said you were shocked. Did the. Okay. I know it took you aback. I know you were like, "What is he doing?" 

Tashun Bowden-Lewis

Yes. 

Erin Braxton

And I, I just want to try to see if I can ask you what was going through your head that made you comply? 

Tashun Bowden-Lewis

Yeah. Well, at the time, it was the beginning of the meeting. And I didn't want to have any kind of dispute at that point. We were beginning the meeting. You know, people, I'm, as the head of anything, everything trickles down from the head. So my, my example is very important. And of course, all eyes are on me. So if I were to, if I was going to say what was really on my mind at that point, it would have led to a serious argument. And it would have been something where then it wouldn't, it would shift from the business to a one-on-one situation of power dynamics. And I didn't want that. My people are in the room and I need for them to see that I can address issues with poise and I can also move through situations without having it rattle what I have to do because I'm still going to do my reporting, answer my questions, do what I have to do. So it was important for me to lead by example. And after the meeting, of course we had conversations, but during that time, it was, it was jarring. And I wanted to make sure though that as a, as a leader, that they see me being calm under pressure and not having some sort of banter that would have been divisive at the time. 

Ashley Morgan

I was in B2B sales managing a team of five managers and over a hundred contractors. I went out to a meeting with a CEO and we had only communicated over the phone and over email. And, you know, I'm, you know, waiting in his office. I do all of the normal business development things and I'm super polished, super profession, like this is my job. Like I, I close deals. I, I go and I get business. Like that's, that's the role. And the receptionist brings me back to the CEO's office. And the first thing he says when he sees me is, "You don't sound black on the phone at all." And I am immediately taken aback. And I, I, I'm, I'm so grateful in that moment for I think just practice and having years at that point of experience in the corporate works - workplace and navigating kind of curious situations because I, I knew I had two choices. I can let this person pull me off my game, pull me out of my integrity, and like kind of spiral out, or I can take control of the situation and respond in a way that this person does not expect. 

So I went ahead and conducted the meeting and I delivered my sales presentation exactly the way that he, you know, would have, I, I think probably not expected me to, but exactly the way that I would have if it were a normal client experience. Like I had, again, years and years of experience in sales and client meetings, delivering presentations, things like that. And so despite the shock and, you know, kind of you've got to be kidding me moment, like you've got to be kidding me that I'm like navigating under the surface, I continue, you know, to just kind of move forward. But I did make a decision. It did not matter what this man said. I was not helping him. My company was not helping him. We were not going to sign him as a client. Like that was my power move because I was like, "I know we have a service his company needs. I know that he wants to do business with us. This meeting feels a lot like a a formality." But I knew I was going to turn him down. And that's exactly what I did. I wrapped up the meeting and I said, you know, he was ready to do business with us. And I said, "Well, thank you so much for the, for the time. Unfortunately it's clear that our values don't align." And he was very taken aback. Like, who, who are you to tell me no? Erin, Erin. 

Erin Braxton 

Okay. Okay. 

Ashley Morgan

I see you. 

Michele Forbes

There was a meeting that we had and there was a senior leader that was in the meeting and it was like a meeting for all of the VPs and above. And I remember, you know, raising my hand to say something. And the particular leader that was in that, in that meeting just kind of had it out for me. We never really got, we never got along. I had great relationships with all the other leaders, but that particular leader just did not, she and I didn't jive. And I remember saying something in the meeting and then she was like, "You know what, Michelle, can you just hold on? Can you hold please? Can you hold?" And I was like, "Wait, wait." I was like, "Oh, I'm so sorry," because we were, we were via Zoom. Yeah. And I said, "Oh, I'm so sorry." I'm like, "What happened?" And she was like, "Well, just wait." And I was like, "Wait." And I was like, "I'm sorry." I said, "Can everyone hear me?" And then every. It was as quiet as it was a, it was amongst my peers. And I was the only one there except for one of my other friends who was a male. And I was like, "What happened?" And she was like, "Well, can we, let's, let's listen to such and such." She was actually, she was actually answering. And so I waited for such and such to answer. And then when it, it, she never called me back up again. 

So I was so mortified that I had been shut down in that way, in the middle of all of my peers. It literally like, I was shocked that I, after the meeting, I kind of just sat there and was like, "What do I do here? What do I, do I talk to HR because I don't trust HR because I feel as though HR is going to have their back and that I'm going to be the person slammed even though the way that she handled me was so incredibly disrespectful. And I, the situations like that have happened in other positions and it's just been hard. 

Erin Braxton

Yeah. 

Nadine Foster

As we warmed up to each other, the comments started to roll in. And the first comment that she had made, which I didn't take it as anything at the time, because we've all had moments with certain things. She was like," I'm the only white girl in my classroom. "She's like," I'm the only white girl in my class. "And she's like," It's just so weird. There's no other white girls in my class. "And I was like," Okay. "Like, well, you know, it happens. There's been times where I've been the only black girl in a room in a space. So I was just like," Okay, like, you know and then from there she'd make com - 

Erin Braxton

Oh my God. 

Nadine Foster

Right, exactly. But that's why I never really took it as anything either because I was like, I can announce it, but what does that really mean? Right? It doesn't change the fact that I'm in, I'm going to be in this class. So I was like, okay, whatever. 

And then she would make comments like, you know, they like to speak their language a lot and I can't understand and that shouldn't be allowed. Now again, a cultural melting pot, so we had a lot of East Indian. We have a lot of East Indian in Branton. And so at this point, she was referring to them. She was like, "They talk a lot in their language. Like it's just not fair. I can't understand them." And I was like, "Okay. Again, what am I going to say to this? Like, it is what it is. I'm not in your class, girl. Like I don't know how you're going to deal with that." 

And then she started making comments in the store about our customers. So she would be like, "Oh, we got a lot of Black shoppers here. They don't really buy." Right? And it triggered a little bit, but I was like, "We are also in a school district area. Like there's high schools all over the place. There's a university. Like they're just walking through the mall. It is what it is." Right? "Oh, Black people are really loud, but you're not loud like them." Wow. "I'm not, I'm not loud like them." And I was like, "Okay. You're different. You're really different. Like, you're not what I expected from a Black woman or for a Black girl. Right? I think there was a time when she made a comment about my complexion, like me being very pretty as a dark-skinned girl, not for, but as a dark skinned girl. I'm very pretty. And I was like, okay. And so it started mounting, right? And I realized that the more comfortable she got with me, the more things she would kind of spew out. And I was young. So at the time I was giving her the benefit of the doubt. I was like, she's just expressing what she's observing. It's not that big of a deal. Leave it alone. But we came to a halt. We came to a pass. 

We had a few young ladies come into the store, three Black girls after school, high school girls. You know, everyone knows high school kids are loud. You know, they're talking, they're excited. It's Friday. They're probably, you know, planning their weekend. And they came with their backpacks, right? And so she, who was in the back, she came like rushing to the front and she's just like, "Hey, hey, hey, like, do you see those girls over there?" I was like, "Yeah." And she's like, "You got to watch them. You got to keep an eye on them." And so I was like, okay, like, you know, so I went over and I asked them, did they need help with anything? You know, they told me they were fine. They want to try and some stuff. She was like, "No, no, no. These girls are here for something." And I was like, "Okay. All right." I asked them if they need a fitting room. I did what I was supposed to do, right? And she's like, "No, I need you to be there with them. I need to be on them." Now, at this point, there's other customers in the store. It's just me and her. And her focus was just on those three Black girls. Right? And they knew it. They knew something was, was off. They felt it. They ended up leaving. They didn't purchase anything. 

Later on in that night, she came to me about it, and she was just pretty much like, I don't remember verbatim what she had said to me, but it was pretty much around the fact that, like, those girls were going to steal, right? And she was like, you know, I don't understand. Why can't they be like you? Like, you're so different than those girls. Like, I don't get it. Why, why do they have to come in and steal? And I, I got triggered. I got triggered in so many different ways because I remember being a teenager in the stores and having someone follow me and thinking, is it because I'm Black? 

Monique McKinney

So sitting down with the president of the hospital, an organization in which I previously supported as the HR lead. And as we all know that in the part of giving an annual review you should know and expect what will be on your review, right? You typically have an understanding of your job description. Typically, in most organizations, you sign it. And in a lot of organizations too, you have, you know, probationary periods or 90-day reviews. And so I successfully was able to maneuver through the first, you know, a good eight months before I was given a 90-day review, which I exceeded all expectations, no needs improvement. And then fast-forward 60 days, I was then attempted to be delivered a annual performance review that left at the end rating of a needs improvement. So the words that I saw, loud and aggression. 

Erin Braxton

Wow. 

Monique McKinney

And in writing, in a performance, in an annual performance review. 

Erin Braxton

Did he actually say those words as well, or did he just hide behind the, the paper? 

Monique McKinney

Hide behind the paper. 

Erin Braxton 

Okay. 

Monique McKinney

So the words were never expressed verbally. They were written. And as I was re- reviewing the review and I was reading all of the things that he noted that I was doing very well, he also took the time to characterize what he felt certain attributes or behaviors as being loud and I guess at some point, some, some aggression being shown. And then it proceeded to go into his explanation why. And, and really, Aaron, I, I couldn't sit and listen. 

Erin Braxton

Those are very stereo- stereotypical. Those are, those are some strong words. Like those are words that one would think that the president of a hospital would know not to say to a Black woman because at some point on his way to climbing the ladder to becoming a president, he would've had some sort of sensitivity training or something to know better than to say that. 

Monique McKinney

I too have gone through cultural diversity training, sensitivity training DE&I training. So we know the, the lingos and the parameters that may lead to being culturally insensitive. 

Erin Braxton

Sure. 

Monique McKinney

And so we know what those safeguards are, right? And so you're absolutely correct, right? You should know better - 

Erin Braxton

Right. 

Monique McKinney

As a president of a hospital. A $6 million hospital that is. And so I was taken back. Quite fr - I just, I just, I was. I was speechless. 

Erin Braxton

So you're shocked, You're like in shock sitting there. 

Monique McKinney

And I'm not speechless a lot. Like I always got something to say. 

Erin Braxton

No, Always, all the time. 

Monique McKinney

So, so this took me this, this really took me to a different place that I had not been in quite a long time in my HR career. But then also a, a, a deep for just deeper inner thought for me was how, how did I get here? How did, how did this, how did these two words begin to lead him to rating me as an underperformer? Right? And, and what everything that I've read, I mean, you can research, there's multiple white papers, conversation, books, Harvard reviews on stereotypical language attributed to Black women. And, and at the very top, you'll see loud, you will see yelling, you will see sometimes aggressive behavior. And what I've, what I then learned at that time is that I could not show that type of emotion. So I politely asked that we halt the conversation, discontinue the meeting, halt the conversation so that I could have some time to review the things that he had written in this performance review. That was my first time seeing it so that I could collect my thoughts and, and really you know, take some time to review it. I'm still a little speechless to this day about it. And then seeing it in writing, I think it's just, it hits a little different. 

Erin Braxton

So guys, that was just a snippet of the crazy Coffee No Cream moments that we've had on the Coffee No Cream podcast. I hope this encourages you to go and watch all of the episodes that you haven't watched. There's so many of them. We've done a lot on the podcast in the short time that we've been around. However, Coffee No Cream moments are what it's all about. So check it out. 

And coming soon, I'm going to be introducing the Drip No Filter. A lot of people want to come on the podcast, share their Coffee No Cream moments, not just as a way to promote what they've got going on, but also as a way to receive some feedback on how to handle it, what to do. They don't want to come on air. They won't, don't want to be sitting here with all of this. They, they just, they just don't want that. So soon, I am going to share with you a way to share your Coffee No Cream moment with me, and then I can read them and we could get feedback together. Maybe I'll read your Coffee No Cream moment on an actual podcast episode, but this is going to be called the Drip No Filter. And for those of you who've read the newsletter, we do have a section called The Drip, which is the, the comment section. So the Drip No Filter will give you the opportunity to share, get advice. What do we think? What should you do? All of that kind of thing. So it's coming soon. 

In fact, if you're interested in that now, just go ahead and email us at thedrip@coffeenocream.com. That's thedrip@coffeenocream.com and share with us your Coffee No Cream moment. I want to hear them. And help you if you don't know what to do or if you just want to share. It's fine. 

Okay, guys, I think that's it. That's all we got for today. Thank you so much for joining us, and we will see you in the next video.